Scan-X with new integrated x-ray feature

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rfacko
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Scan-X with new integrated x-ray feature

Post by rfacko » Wed Nov 10, 2021 12:52 pm

Still working on transitioning away from Apteryx and into OD's new integrated x-ray feature. We use both a Scan-X for phosphor plates and an XDR sensor. The sensor seems to be working flawlessly. I am having intermittent, unpredictable issues with the Scan-x, however. I have it set up to open the TWAIN UI. Sometimes I get a Windows message that says "VistaEasy Error - IdentifierString 'PAN-LCP_TWAIN' is already in use. New job will not be added to queue." Other times it scans multiple images but doesn't import them all into OD, then the next time I open the Acquire button it says there are x-rays still stuck in the system, do I want to import to the current patient? Other times the scanner is still expecting an image from the previous scanning session and will run the plates through but the images don't get scanned. In summary, it's glitchy and inconsistent, and therefore difficult to diagnose. My staff is getting frustrated. I think we have it figured out well enough at this point to at least know when something doesn't feel right so we don't feed the plates into the scanner, restart the computer, and then scan them, so we don't have to re-expose the patient. But having to restart the computer every couple of patients is pretty disruptive for our workflow.

What other details can I provide to help improve functionality?

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Re: Scan-X with new integrated x-ray feature

Post by rfacko » Wed Nov 10, 2021 2:31 pm

FYI, the Air Techniques TWAIN UI that it links to is VistaEasy. One issue seems to be that it doesn't completely disconnect from the scanner, and then when you open a different patient and try to acquire it says the scanner is already in use (and it shouldn't be).

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Re: Scan-X with new integrated x-ray feature

Post by rfacko » Thu Nov 11, 2021 9:39 am

I'm just going to keep talking to myself here ;) In case it is helpful for anyone else. So I called Air Techniques to ask for help. The tech took a few minutes to look through everything and then said "this isn't going to work, and your problems will only get worse, you should use our software", at which point, without my consent, he installed the Air Techniques x-ray software and wanted me to stick around so he could show me how it works. I wasn't happy but kept things to myself, and just explained that I had an office full of patients and would have to call back for training. Sure enough, I went back to continue to use OD and now my x-rays weren't working at all. Back to Apteryx, and not working there either. End of day. Came in early the next day, and was desperate enough that I called Apteryx to see if they could get it to work again. Fortunately they didn't make me pay for a year of support like they always do (maybe I paid within the past year, I can't remember), but they logged in and said it's a driver problem. Called Air Techniques who said it's a software problem. I spoke with Kevin at AT and expressed my frustration. He uninstalled and resintalled the driver without successfully fixing the problem. Finally, he uninstalled the AT x-ray software and now things are back to "normal". Sure enough, the AT tech who gave me no support whatsoever and only advocated to use the AT software is the one who caused all of this. Ugh. I've run a few tests and have seen a few patients now without the issues that I was having before, but will see how long it lasts.

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Re: Scan-X with new integrated x-ray feature

Post by rhaber123 » Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:09 pm

Very interesting. Thank you for sharing.

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Re: Scan-X with new integrated x-ray feature

Post by jordansparks » Thu Nov 11, 2021 3:33 pm

Our assumption with the ScanX was that it could dump all your images to a folder instead of using Twain. That's why we built the "Import Automatically" feature. Does ScanX not let you do that? If it's using Twain, then it's going to want to send a series of image, which Open Dental can't handle. We would need to build support for multiple image Twain. So my main question is whether the scanner can just dump to a folder or if it insists on only using Twain.

Until this is resolved, I've added Scan-X to our list of incompatible devices. This is our only known incompatible device so far. Hopefully, though, we can this to work.
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Re: Scan-X with new integrated x-ray feature

Post by jordansparks » Thu Nov 11, 2021 9:49 pm

Someone successfully used ScanX by using their VistaEasy software.
viewtopic.php?t=5903
I downloaded VistaEasy and can't get it to work, but that's probably because I don't have a ScanX device connected.
I ordered a ScanX on eBay, but that will take a little while to arrive.
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Re: Scan-X with new integrated x-ray feature

Post by rfacko » Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:03 am

Thanks Jordan, I think ScanX functionality would be helpful for a lot of us.

I tried to set up the other option as you had mentioned. The ScanX does drop images into a folder. I set up the OD listener. I'm not a great computer person anymore so some of this is my interpretation and I don't necessarily know the proper language to use. But from what I can figure out, the VistaEasy software is a TWAIN "listener", when I open it, it just runs in the background and waits for a signal from another program (like Acquire in OD). So there isn't a way to tell the scanner to start scanning so that the VistaEasy software opens and the OD listener can get the images. Does that make any sense?

Anyway, thanks Jordan for picking up a ScanX. When you have it set up the issues will hopefully be pretty evident. In the meantime, based on your explanation of how the Acquire function was set up to work, I'm going to try to scan and then transfer each image individually rather than scanning several images and then transferring multiple. I'm a pediatric dentist so we don't take more than two or four x-rays on any individual patient, so shouldn't be a significant burden.

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Re: Scan-X with new integrated x-ray feature

Post by jordansparks » Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:09 am

Sorry about the hassle.
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Re: Scan-X with new integrated x-ray feature

Post by jordansparks » Wed Nov 17, 2021 7:15 am

ScanX machine has arrived, so we've begun troubleshooting.
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Re: Scan-X with new integrated x-ray feature

Post by rfacko » Wed Nov 17, 2021 7:43 am

Thanks Jordan, fingers crossed over here!

BTW, none of my work-arounds have been very successful. Based on your comments we switched to just scanning single images, and while it "works" it's glitchy and requires re-starting the computer multiple times per day. But at least we're not losing images!

Thank you again!

Rich

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Re: Scan-X with new integrated x-ray feature

Post by jordansparks » Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:55 pm

Support has been added for the ScanX. It will be a few days until these changes make their way into version 21.3, and they can't be backported further than that.
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Re: Scan-X with new integrated x-ray feature

Post by rfacko » Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:56 am

Much appreciated, thanks Jordan, hope you have a great Thanksgiving!

Rich

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Re: Scan-X with new integrated x-ray feature

Post by Nate » Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:37 pm

Wow!!! Great topic. I have a feeling there will be a big migration from Apteryx XrayVision with the end of support mentioned and there push for cloud service. I would feel wonderful if OpenDental can fill the void left with the exit of Apteryx to on site storage of radiographs. I am long-term OD user and never stopped support so maybe this issue alone will be a life saver.

I also use ScanX and have had no issues with Apteryx but I am not going to move to their web based system no matter how much they push its revolution and how Software as a Service is where the industry is moving. I don’t mind paying for support on a regular bases and getting updates and upgrades but I just purchased XrayVision last year and now they are discontinuing it. Poor choice, now I realize my second choice XDR, would have been a better move.

However, if OpenDental can do a descent job with radiographs, then that may be the icing on the cake for the best PMS available.

Is there a guide to set up ScanX with OD? Can you select 2 bitewing, 4 BW, single PA, FMX, pano, then start scanning? Will it allow you to move images around and mount all the images correctly after they have scanned? Are there any filters applied when using ScanX or sensors? Any down sides or areas that can be improved? I would be much more willing to support open dental for improvements with image module then sink money into another company I’m not too familiar with like XDR.

I really just want radiographs to be scanned and imported without loss of quality. Ability to mount images in a handful of layouts. Occasionally lighten or darken an image. Be able to easily export an image or layout, ideally with patient name and date of images. Would be nice to automatically transfer existing Apteryx images into OD so they are all in one place.

Rich, have you tested ScanX with the latest update? What are your thoughts? Limitations or areas that could be improved with integration?
Thanks,
Nathan

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Re: Scan-X with new integrated x-ray feature

Post by rfacko » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:05 am

Nate, just became available today in the Beta. Upgraded just now, so no feedback on functionality yet...

Jordan, it seems to be working for multiple images. First issue we have run into so far - if you scan more images than were in the mount, it comes up with an error and kicks you out of OD. The "extra" images get temporarily lost, but when you re-open "Acquire" it finds one, but not all, of the unsaved images.

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Re: Scan-X with new integrated x-ray feature

Post by Nate » Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:07 pm

UPDATED AFTER FURTHER TESTING Ver 21.3.29:
Jordan- I am testing the ScanX directly with OD beta on a new computer connected to the ScanX and I'm impressed with its integration. I had a few things that might help improve implementation. Let me know what your thoughts are.

SCANX SETUP GUIDE:
A guide to setting up the ScanX directly with OD would be fantastic. I loaded the drivers that came with ScanX or can be downloaded from AirTechniques. This sets up VistaEasy Viewer by default but I dont think its necessary or very useful, unless OD can not automatically flip images and save flipped image after scan is complete. Do we need to load or download any ScanX drivers or does the newest beta version 21.3.29 have the latest ScanX driver ready to use?

FEWER CLICKS:
I would suggest making it less clicks to get x-rays. Apteryx was basically set up with single click.
With Apteryx once we click the button in OD (from toolbar at top of any OD module) these are the steps:
1) Click type of mount from top toolbar, then scanner is activated and Air Techniques ScanX module pops up and select type of film (Intraoral standard, high, very high, pano, etc). If its on the option you want (used last), then start scanning. If not then select the correct film type and the scanner re-activates ready for that type of film.
2) Once films had been ran, Select Done to close twain interface(inactivate scanner) and all x-rays are placed on the mount to allow dragging and dropping in the correct position

OpenDental Steps w/ VistaEasy Viewer Activated:
1) Click on imaging module
2) Click mount
3) Click drop down Mount you want
4) Click Acquire or click on an empty mount position (either lets you move to next step)
5) Click Start to activate scanner Twain Interface
6) Click to save all marked images in VistaEasy (never saw VistaEasy when using Apteryx)
7) Click to close ScanX twain interface
-->Ideally there should be an option to place mounts individually in the toolbar (Where the Apteryx button is), so you click 1 time. They could be listed by names 2BW, 4BW, PA, PA/BW, Pano, FMX and/or have icons associated with them. Also that same click of the mount could activate scanner to skip a lot of clicks. Or at a minimum when clicking Acquire it starts, not sure why you would click acquire and then click start.

OpenDental Steps w/ VistaEasy Viewer Inactivated: Probably similar to users of Apteryx
1) Click on imaging module
2) Click mount
3) Click drop down Mount you want
4) Click Acquire or click on an empty mount position (either lets you move to next step)
5) Click Start to activate scanner Twain Interface
6) Click to close ScanX twain interface

MOVING IMAGES IN MOUNTS:
I think once scanned images are transferred into the mount it should default to 'Adj' rather than 'Pan'. Because the first thing you have to do is move images to mount them correctly which requires the 'Adj’ button. The 'Pan' button only moves the entire mount around the screen which should not be done too often if you set up the mounts like you want to see them. I guess after the initial scan is complete and 'Adj' is selected to move images then if you go back into an image it could be on 'Pan' but not critical. Also when you move an image it takes the place of the new image. Is it feasible to move an image outside the mount while you move another image to where it goes then place the one outside the mount where it belongs?

DEFAULT LOCATION OF NEW SCANNED IMAGES:
The images were automatically going into 'Patient Info' folder. They should default to go into the folder that matches the mount. Like BW, FMX, Pano, PA. I imagine that would require an option when setting up the mounts to assign a matching folder to send images to. That way whenever you take BW's the mount BWs is assigned to folder BWs and images go directly there.

ORIENTATION OF NEWLY SCANNED IMAGES:
Another thing I noticed was the images were sent to OD in the way they were scanned (ie all vertical and inverted). Apteryx had an option you could click that would allow all images coming in to be mirror image so you dont have to flip them. I think it might have been option within mounts but could have been global for all mounts. We always run the phospher plates with the white side toward the drum as recommended but want them mounted as looking at the patient from outside the mouth (ie the 'a' on the film looks like an 'a', not inverted). They also had option on individual mounts to auto rotate films 90 degrees. So the BWs that are scanned vertical would be flipped to normal horizontal position automatically. Of course pano would not be flipped as it is scanned horizontally.

EXPORTING IMAGES & ORIENTATION:
I also noticed after correctly flipping and mounting images that when exporting a single image they were in the unflipped or unrotated form, however when exporting the the entire mount they were in correct mounted position. The single image should also be exported in the same correct mounted position.

DELETING IMAGES:
Lastly, when deleting an x-ray there should be an extra warning 'Are you sure you want to delete this x-ray' to prevent loss of such critical data. I guess that too could be an option but I personally think it should be defaulted to on. When right clicking on a single image I could not delete a single image in a mount. It would delete the entire mount of images regardless if I had selected 'Adj' or 'Pan' buttons. I think it would be rare to delete an entire mount and if so it can be done by deleting in the folders to the left side of the screen. When right clicking and selecting delete on the image it should only delete the single image.
Last edited by Nate on Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Scan-X with new integrated x-ray feature

Post by jordansparks » Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:32 pm

Thank you so much for all the great feedback. We will work hard to make this smoother. Most of the complaints will need to be added as new features, but one of them is already done: Exporting single images from a mount is better in 21.4. 21.4 also has a lot of other improvements that are unrelated to ScanX, but which makes it a better experience.
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Re: Scan-X with new integrated x-ray feature

Post by Nate » Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:44 pm

Jordan,
Thanks for the update and review of some of the improvements that can be made to the imaging module. Would you suggest each idea below should be added as a new feature request or combined as one?
1) Fewer clicks to acquire images
2) Moving images in mounts
3) Default location of new scanned images corresponding to name of category folder
4) Orientation of newly scanned images (automatically flip mirror image of scanx images)
I think #4 is the most important to be able to use ScanX with plates toward drum but have images mounted as looking at the patient without individually flipping each image. I think this could be a clickable option based on user preference. Please let me know if it is already an option that I may have overlooked.

I look forward to evaluating 21.4 once its released.
Thanks again,
Nathan

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Re: Scan-X with new integrated x-ray feature

Post by jordansparks » Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:02 am

This area is developing so quickly that the feature request system is really too slow to keep track of it. I'm tracking it all here:
https://www.opendental.com/site/imaging ... ments.html
I just haven't had a chance to work in your new suggestions, but they are great. So if the rapid progress slows down for some reason, then you might add them to the feature request system, but probably hold off to see how far we get first.
4-I think this would be done in the mount setup, just like the rotations currently are.
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Re: Scan-X with new integrated x-ray feature

Post by Nate » Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:08 pm

Jordan,
I agree the mirror image option could be a selection in the 'Edit Mount Def' similar to how the image rotations are defined. Another issue that can be planned ahead of time is for offices that use both ScanX and sensor and require different mount settings based on the acquisition device (Sensor or ScanX). I know there is an option to select the type of device but the device should actually be able to dictate the mounting options.
For example, ScanX device would allow setting all the mounts to have mirror image and flip all BWs 90 degrees based on how image is scanned in
Sensor mounts would not require mirror image or flipping a BW since image is acquired in horizontal position
I'm not exactly sure how to reconcile the options above and not create a redundant mount other than somehow allow setting up acquisition device to dictate any manipulation of image in each position of a mount. I also dont know how Apteryx or other imaging software handled it when an office used multiple imaging devices like different sensors and ScanX. We are certainly happy with our ScanX but might plan a supplemental sensor in the future and would like to have it set up to acquire images into the same mounts but likely different orientation.

Thinking about the future, I also wonder if OD imaging will be able to support acquisition of digital panoramic directly into imaging module?

I suspect rather than Denticon/Apteryx converting OpenDental users to utilize their practice management platform they are going to find out a lot of OpenDental users migrate away from Apteryx and utilizer OpenDental for all practice management and imaging needs. I look forward to updating DentalTown users of all the great improvements OpenDental is incorporating into imaging since many Apteryx users seem upset about their phasing out support for XrayVision 4. I know they have started to focus more on DSO's and corporate dentistry that require multiple offices but have failed the many smaller private dental offices that prefer onsite data management.
Thanks again for looking out for the dental community!

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Re: Scan-X with new integrated x-ray feature

Post by jordansparks » Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:42 pm

My understanding is that digital panos are easy. That's just a single image.
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Re: Scan-X with new integrated x-ray feature

Post by Nate » Mon Dec 06, 2021 3:53 pm

Jordan- I purchased Apteryx XrayVision and started using it last year and now that they are discontinuing it I wanted to migrate images directly into OpenDental. Is there a way to automatically transfer xrays/intraoral images from Apteryx to corresponding patient in OD? If not, is there a way to create a 'utility tool' to transfer the images? I figure since OD originally sent patient name, SS, DOB, etc to Apteryx there might be a way to transfer images back to same patient in OD. I checked current size of my XrayVision folder and its 2.8GB with 7,898 files and 830 folders.
Thanks,
Nathan Klein

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Re: Scan-X with new integrated x-ray feature

Post by jordansparks » Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:14 pm

We provide a conversion service. It involves an export from Apteryx followed by in import into Open Dental.
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Re: Scan-X with new integrated x-ray feature

Post by Nate » Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:51 am

Jordan- I called OD today and the representative explained they do not offer a service to import x-rays from Apteryx. They explained Image conversions will only import scanned images and documents but not x-rays into Open Dental. He explained that with the improvements in OD imaging module and the likely migration of other users to the OD imaging module for acquiring x-rays then there may be options in the future to import/convert apteryx images into OD. Are ScanX radiographs that are stored in Apteryx considered scanned images or x-rays? I'm not certain but when I set up Apteryx I asked how images are stored and I think they explained they are .jpg files but with a different extension. I think they said that if the extension is changed to .jpg then they would open like a regular .jpg file.

So any plan to allow import/conversion of Apteryx x-rays and intraoral images into OD imaging folders?

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Re: Scan-X with new integrated x-ray feature

Post by brian » Thu Dec 09, 2021 8:22 am

Hi Nathan,

Sorry for the confusion, Open Dental does offer a conversion of X-Ray images from Apteryx. Our conversions team will reach out to you soon to discuss the process and we will clarify our documentation internally to avoid confusion in the future.
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Re: Scan-X with new integrated x-ray feature

Post by then » Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:19 am

Nate wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:51 am
Jordan- I called OD today and the representative explained they do not offer a service to import x-rays from Apteryx. They explained Image conversions will only import scanned images and documents but not x-rays into Open Dental. He explained that with the improvements in OD imaging module and the likely migration of other users to the OD imaging module for acquiring x-rays then there may be options in the future to import/convert apteryx images into OD. Are ScanX radiographs that are stored in Apteryx considered scanned images or x-rays? I'm not certain but when I set up Apteryx I asked how images are stored and I think they explained they are .jpg files but with a different extension. I think they said that if the extension is changed to .jpg then they would open like a regular .jpg file.

So any plan to allow import/conversion of Apteryx x-rays and intraoral images into OD imaging folders?
Hi Nathan, were you able to get all your images converted successfully?
It looks like a single image can be open with picture app but images with mount (like FMX) has prefix FGrp can't be opened.
I am curious if these type of images can be converted.

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Re: Scan-X with new integrated x-ray feature

Post by Nate » Thu Dec 23, 2021 3:46 pm

Jordan,
I have updated to 21.4.11 and small issue with patient pictures not showing up in chart module or family module. However, if you click on the patient picture in the image module and go back the picture shows up again.

I was thinking the mirror image option of newly scanned images (automatically flip mirror image of scanx images) was incorporated already but maybe it's still in the works. I checked in the setup mount area and still only see the option to rotate the images but not flip them to mirror image. Ideally it could be a checkbox on the entire mount. So all images in FMX would be mirror, as well as BWs, etc. Our pano phosphor plate is already in proper orientation without the mirror image. Please let me know if it is already an option that I may have overlooked.

I also think the setup mount area could be a great location to have drop down menu to select the 'Default location' of new scanned images corresponding to name of category folder. So when setting up an FMX mount you could have option to select FMX as the category folder to place it. Likewise, when setting up 2BW or 4BW they could go into the category folder for BW's.

Then,
I have not had conversion of Apteryx images to OpenDental yet. I am still waiting until a few important features like those above are implemented. OpenDental reached out to me and confirmed they can convert Apteryx x-ray and intraoral camera images into OD. My understanding is they would go into a single category folder in OD (maybe Apteryx), so they would be available when you want to reference them. I dont believe they can import them into the individual BW, Pano, FMX, Intraoral images categories. I did not specifically ask if individual images or full mounts would transfer over, but that is a great question.

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Re: Scan-X with new integrated x-ray feature

Post by Nate » Fri Dec 24, 2021 9:50 am

Most of my questions were answered when I visited the link you posted earlier regarding imaging improvements: https://www.opendental.com/site/imaging ... ments.html
It looks like a fantastic set of planned features are listed so I will just keep an eye on when they get implemented.
Thanks again!

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Re: Scan-X with new integrated x-ray feature

Post by jordansparks » Wed Jan 05, 2022 11:19 am

Your first issue is a bug that we are now working on.
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Re: Scan-X with new integrated x-ray feature

Post by rfacko » Wed Jan 05, 2022 12:12 pm

So the concept of using Apteryx within OD has been working wonderfully, and I'm really excited to continue using it this way. One issue we have had from the start is that the process is just "glitchy". Meaning sometimes after repeated successful scanning we go to Imaging and try to open the TWAIN interface and it just doesn't do anything. There are other similar flaws that come up from time to time. The end result is that in order to be able to scan again, the computer needs to be restarted (or at least that's the only solution we've been able to identify). If we take on average x-rays for 10 different patients each day, we probably have to restart the computer 2 times. Not a game-changer, but definitely annoying for my staff from a workflow and time management perspective. We never had this type of issue when we used the Scan-X with Apteryx.

Is anyone else having similar issues? I've been trying to have staff document exactly what happens, but it seems a little different each time, and to be honest they just haven't been consistent with writing down the exact issue. I can reinforce the need to get more info if that would be helpful.

This is mostly a challenge because it isn't consistent or repeatable. I'm not able to just open up the program and show someone how it fails, because more than likely it would work fine on that occasion.

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Re: Scan-X with new integrated x-ray feature

Post by jordansparks » Sat Jan 08, 2022 7:45 pm

>So the concept of using Apteryx within OD has been working wonderfully...
I think you meant to say Scan-X, not Apteryx, right?
What specific version are you using?
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Re: Scan-X with new integrated x-ray feature

Post by rfacko » Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:24 am

Thanks Jordan, sorry for the typo, yes I meant Scan-X.

Since I first created this thread, the interaction between OD and the Scan-X TWAIN driver has been "glitchy" like I described above. I attributed this to the fact that OD was really listening for single images and Scan-X is sending multiple. But it was also finicky when only scanning a single image, and the issue persists even with the update to allow multiple images to be transferred, so there is something else going on here.

I am currently using OD version 21.3.29.0

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Re: Scan-X with new integrated x-ray feature

Post by Nate » Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:45 am

Rich, you might consider the latest version 21.4.16. We are not using it full time but testing it regularly and have not seemed to have any issues that required restarting the computer but then again we only test it on a single dummy patient and probably only 4-5 sets of radiographs to get a feel for the workflow. Also downside of 21.4 seems to be that your patient images that are scanned in may not show on the appointment module or in the family module until you click on them first.

Jordan, it seems about 90% of all the images are fixed after viewing the 'patient picture' in the image module. However, we have found several that still will not show up.
All our patient images come from scan of patient drivers license and then cropped. They are .jpg files
Fixable type: Generally, first appear with some portion of white when hovering over the patient photo. Almost like it was issue with image size/crop. Once we view the image in the image module it then is fixed when hovering in appointment module as well as in the family module.
Non-fixable type: Only appear as a brown background box, no white visible within the brown box when hovering over the appointment or viewing family module.

CLUE: All the fixable type seem to have drivers license scanned in 'insurance folder', then photo was copied to 'patient picture', then cropped to show just the patients face. The unfixable type do not have the original full drivers license scanned in and must have cropped it when actually doing the scan so only the patient face is visible and saved in the 'patient picture' folder. I was planning on copying the drivers license and re-cropping the image to see if it would fix the non-fixable type but noticed the full ID was not ever saved. I did try copying the patient picture and selecting the new picture but it did not fix the issue either. Hopefully, the technical engineers will figure it out. I think it happened when updating from 21.3 to 12.4

Question: Are the raw images that are scanned in always saved as original? What happens if the image is adjusted (brightness/contrast, text/drawing, other modifications, etc)? Is it just like applying a filter to the original image but not saving another copy or permanently altering the original image? I do not use filters much but it might be something that other offices would like as a future option. Like a single button you click that would apply a pre-determined brightness/contrast or other image modification to make endo lesions more visible or another single button for caries, and another for perio.

Thanks,
Nathan

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Re: Scan-X with new integrated x-ray feature

Post by jordansparks » Fri Jan 14, 2022 12:49 pm

The issue with cropping is a bug that I thought would be fixed by now. We should be very close.

We never alter the raw image. All brightness, contrast, text, cropping, etc is always just applied as a filter when viewing. This means it's always 100% reversible. Fortunately, we are able to apply these things fast enough that we don't have to also save an altered image for speed. I'm open to the idea of filters some day, but I've always been under the impression that they exaggerate or distort the image. For example, if you have a gold crown margin, that's very bright white, and you have to determine if there's marginal caries. If you apply a sharpen filter, it can see that border and exaggerate it by making the dark darker and the white whiter. Why would it do that? Because that's what sharpen is supposed to do. It's supposed to make borders stick out more. The problem is that when it add localized darkness, that makes it look like caries. In the end, the human brain is the best filter when the images are consistent. We can make them bigger, and we can adjust the brightness of the entire image, but when you get into localized alterations, you're starting to affect diagnostics. That can be dangerous. That's my current position, but I'm not dogmatic about it.
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Re: Scan-X with new integrated x-ray feature

Post by Nate » Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:41 pm

I have updated to the latest version of 21 available (21.4.19) to see if the cropping bug had been fixed. Its not fixed for us yet and it seems that the little trick to view the patient image in the image module and then return to the chart module doesn't fix the issue anymore. Sometimes there is no way to get the patient image to be viewable on the schedule or in the family module. Even trying to copy a new image and re-crop it in the patient image folder doesn't let us view the patient image on the appointment schedule or family module.

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Re: Scan-X with new integrated x-ray feature

Post by jordansparks » Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:24 pm

I'm very sorry about that. We released a "fix" a week ago, but then realized that the fix was also buggy. We are releasing the real fix in the next few minutes, version 21.4.20. You will want to update to that immediately. Any images that you viewed while using 21.4.17, and which looked bad can no longer be fixed automatically. So after your update, you will need to manually recrop those. In the Imaging module, open the image, click Size/Rotation button, and Reset Crop. Then crop properly. Again, I'm very sorry about that.
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Re: Scan-X with new integrated x-ray feature

Post by Nate » Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:04 am

I just updated to 21.4.20 and found some improvements. It seems a few of the images that we have not viewed 1,2,3 months out have been fixed but not the majority of them. Your trick to reset and re-crop helps on some of them. However, I am running into a lot that even resetting the full driver's license image then re-cropping leaves no image at all in the family module and also a blank beige image on the appointment module. I have even tried exporting the image and then re-importing it and it will not fix some of the images. It seems most of the issues we cannot fix seem to be from driver's license we scanned in before awhile back (2015 or earlier but I haven't kept track for sure). We did let OD utilize a copy of our data base a few weeks back to try and help with fixing the bug. Not sure if they still have it or want a list of the patients we cannot correct the image with to determine why its happening. We had never had an issue with the patient images before the update earlier this year.

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Re: Scan-X with new integrated x-ray feature

Post by jordansparks » Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:54 am

Uncropping and recropping should always fix it. If not, that seems like a completely unrelated bug. I'll set someone on trying to duplicate that issue.
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Re: Scan-X with new integrated x-ray feature

Post by Nate » Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:52 am

I may call OD support today and let them see the issue and try to fix it. I am noticing more patients at least so far that we cannot get their image to show. I initially started thinking it was related to images scanned in further in the past. I think it is related to how the images were scanned in. I think the issues we cannot fix were when we scanned in a drivers license on a full 8.5x11 which some staff did years ago. Then they would crop the face from that and it has always worked fine but causing issue with ver 21.4. However, more recently the staff has been scanning in the drivers license and cropping to just the drivers license during the scanning process (rather than a full 8.5x11 page). These images seem to be fixable.

We tried the uncropping and recropping but it did not fix it. When uncropped it looks like we scanned in a full page with the drivers license on it. When uncropped we see the full page with the drivers license. When we crop to just the face on the license we get no photo at all. As though the crop of the face on a full page is no longer enough to register an image for the family module or hovering over an appointment. It use to be fine but is no longer working.

So I tried exporting the full page scan with drivers license. Then cropping the image to just the drivers license outside of open dental and importing. The result was I saw the full drivers license visible but it only took up 1/4 of the image space in the family module. So I tried cropping again outside of OD to just the face on the drivers license and importing the face image and again back to no image available at all. So it seems that if the image we scanned in was a full 8.5 x 11 with the drivers license on it that we can no longer crop to just the face as it is not enough pixels or something to accept. However, as I mentioned we had done that in the past without any issue and the images were actually very clear since they are small boxes were it is visible in the family module or hovering over an appointment.

The images that we can fix with uncrop/recrop seem to be ones that when we scanned them in we cropped in the scanning software to remove any of the excess page and only show the drivers license.

All scans and crops were in .jpg format

Is there a way to re-allow the face image from a full page scan to be visible? It must be some change in the acceptable pixel allowance or something.
I hope all this info helps in correcting the issue!

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Re: Scan-X with new integrated x-ray feature

Post by Nate » Mon Feb 14, 2022 11:58 am

The cropping issue that affected images in family module and appointment module does seem to be fixed in version 21.4.22 but as mentioned there were some that required manually re-cropping again. I have not run across any that we could not fix like before.

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Re: Scan-X with new integrated x-ray feature

Post by rfacko » Fri Feb 18, 2022 2:38 pm

Still having "glitchy" issues when using OD to acquire images using Scan-X (XDR sensor working flawlessly). I initially thought it would be fixed when Scan-X capabilities were added to OD (ability to acquire multiple images simultaneously). The screen will freeze randomly (can still use the mouse and other programs, but OD freezes) when trying to acquire. Challenging to re-create for an OD tech as it is so intermittent. My staff "might" think that it has something to do with the Windows timeout/lock screen, and then if a different Windows user logs in then OD freezes when acquiring an image. The only way to get it to work again is to restart the workstation; it really disrupts the whole workflow and causes delays/backups in my office. I'm still doing some testing to try to repeat the problem consistently and haven't been able to say definitively if this is the issue.

Is anyone else having this type of problem? Any suggestions on ways to fix, or to be able to re-create more consistently so someone can diagnose the problem?

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Re: Scan-X with new integrated x-ray feature

Post by jordansparks » Tue Feb 22, 2022 8:04 am

What version are you on?
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Re: Scan-X with new integrated x-ray feature

Post by rfacko » Tue Feb 22, 2022 8:28 am

21.4.21.0 (the beta). It has had this dysfunction since we started using the Scan-X in the Fall.

I spent some time on the phone with support on Friday, they took notes for your engineers. We confirmed that this happens when Windows is logged in under User X, who then opens OD and acquires x-rays. When the computer is left to timeout on its own, OD times out first and goes to the logon screen (it doesn't actually close, just logs out). Then Windows logs out. Later, User Y comes to the workstation to develop x-rays. She logs into User Y's Windows domain account, opens OD, and goes to scan an x-ray, at which time the program freezes, requiring a restart and sometimes losing an image.

I am using the ScanX with Vista Easy (I don't know of any alternatives to using Vista Easy).

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Re: Scan-X with new integrated x-ray feature

Post by jordansparks » Wed Feb 23, 2022 11:06 am

Ah, thank you for the complete explanation. This might be enough for us to be able to duplicate the problem here.
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Re: Scan-X with new integrated x-ray feature

Post by rfacko » Thu Apr 07, 2022 8:58 am

Jordan, out of curiosity, were you able to re-create the bug on your computer?

If not, maybe I will try to change workstations to see if it is a problem with my specific workstation.

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Re: Scan-X with new integrated x-ray feature

Post by benjjo86 » Tue Apr 19, 2022 6:53 am

I hope scanX has been working for everyone recently with opendental! We use mostly direct sensors but wanted to buy a used Scanx for kids and the occasional adult. Any suggestions of models or year of manufacture date that work? Thank you!

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Re: Scan-X with new integrated x-ray feature

Post by jordansparks » Fri Apr 29, 2022 7:51 am

I'm trying to find time to test the Scan-X issue.
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Re: Scan-X with new integrated x-ray feature

Post by jordansparks » Fri May 06, 2022 4:39 pm

I've tested the ScanX with switching Windows users. I also had an issue, but not the one you described. My issue was that the scanner was not recognized as present, and I had to power cycle it. Then, it worked. I could not get it to lock up for me. I would suggest that you set up a Windows user for that machine that is set with a longer timeout before it logs you out of Windows. Maybe that user has less network permissions and a password that everyone knows. So even if it times out, you would still go back into the same Windows user. Logging into Open Dental would probably still involve separate users.

I've added the above comments to https://www.opendental.com/site/scanx.html
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