Radiographs and Intraoral Cameras

Post by **jordansparks** » Thu Nov 05, 2020 7:00 pm

We just finished many enhancements to the Imaging Module. You will now be able to take radiographs directly into Open Dental instead of using bridged software. It will take time, of course, for us to list all the compatible hardware, but I'm hopeful that it will work with nearly all hardware because we used Twain.

drtech · Post by **drtech** » Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:38 am

exciting news!

rhaber123 · Post by **rhaber123** » Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:05 pm

Excellent news,
Better imaging features now, and great money saver if it will work as an imaging software

drtech · Post by **drtech** » Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:42 pm

so, is XDR on the short list of sensors the imaging module with handle?

Post by **jordansparks** » Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:17 pm

XDR is already tested with Twain and it works great. But native XDR would be slightly better. I did just get a two way conversation going with an XDR sensor a few hours ago, so the remaining obstacles are fairly low. So Yes, native XDR support will probably also be included in addition to Twain.

irfan · Post by **irfan** » Sat Nov 07, 2020 7:43 am

Now what are the chances this will work using a remote app session instead of a local instance of OD? 0? Or slightly above 0?

Post by **jordansparks** » Sat Nov 07, 2020 8:13 am

I look at it a little differently. Once you can capture radiographs directly into Open Dental, then you've eliminated the complexity of the bridges to various imaging programs. This means your images will now be available on remote app, where before they were not. This is our main push right now. Soon, we will start work on supporting the hardware over remote app, but that's not the focus. I would assume that software exists to handle Twain in a remote app, so maybe it will work right out of the box.

mking · Post by **mking** » Tue Nov 24, 2020 5:33 am

We are currently using Eaglesoft but want to switch to open dental. I understand that images we take after the update will be available in open dental without using bridge software which is great. How will past X-rays and intra-oral pictures be handled? Will we be able to convert them over to open dental without using third party software?

Also, when do you expect the update to happen, we wanted to hold off on converting to open dental until after the update.

Post by **jordansparks** » Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:24 pm

We're going to alpha in 2 weeks. Beta usually follows a couple of weeks after that. But you don't want to use a beta version until it's been out for a few weeks. So you're looking at about the second week of January, and it will be slightly buggy because it's a beta. I think it does make sense to wait because of the huge advantage of no bridge. We cannot convert those images over, so you'll want to keep Eaglesoft running for the old images.

babysilvertooth · Post by **babysilvertooth** » Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:28 pm

Will adding Xrays and extra oral and intral oral photos 'bog down' Open dental?
Any disadvantages to capturing and storing images in OD?

Post by **jordansparks** » Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:17 am

It takes a moment to load a FMX from the hard drives, but other than that, it doesn't bog anything down. The disadvantages:
-Not mature, so there are likely to be a few annoyances.
-Might not have certain features that your current imaging software has. Example: measure distance.
-TWAIN works, but we don't quite have native capture working. This means you will be using 8 bit instead of 10 or 12 bit. Screens can only show 8 bit, so the image quality won't look worse. But if you change your windowing to a narrower range to look for subtle caries, the quality won't match 12 bit.
-No popout to a second screen yet. If you want images on second monitor, open a second copy of Open Dental.
Advantages:
-No bridging between software.
-I personally feel that the feature set and quality are good, but that's subjective and complex.

cthulu · Post by **cthulu** » Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:44 am

I just wonder when better scanner support will be offered. I can use the bed to scan documents, but not the feeder. It's a weird bug. For reference I use an HP combo scanner/color laser.

Post by **jordansparks** » Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:03 am

What specific version are you using? Tweaks to the scanning were made.

mking · Post by **mking** » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:01 am

With regard to old radiographs and intraoral pictures, would there be an alternative to keeping an eaglesoft account open and storing it with them? Can we import our old radiographs and pictures into open dental ourselves or will they have to be stored by a third party with us using a bridge?

DanTheMan · Post by **DanTheMan** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 12:20 pm

That sounds great Jordan, BUT wouldn't it be time to bring Open Dental into the era of DICOM ?

For this I'd like to point you to the guys at Orthanc, who created a DICOM Open Source server: https://www.orthanc-server.com. The advantage of this would be that you don't have to worry anymore about the DICOM backend. There is also a Windows installation, so for the future it could be packed together with further Open Dental distributions.

So, this just leaves the need for a Dental DICOM frontend.
For my part, I'm trying to get an existing Dental Imaging solution developped by a University to go Open Source.

Regards, Daniel

Post by **jordansparks** » Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:06 pm

As I said in another post, we did just add support for DICOM in version 20.5. We load the DICOM file right into OD. The idea is that you could apply windowing (brightness/contrast) to the 12 bit image in real time with a slider. This wouldn't be possible if we used Orthanc to get a PNG from the DICOM each time.

rambochambo · Post by **rambochambo** » Wed Feb 03, 2021 11:40 am

What version is this available in?

Post by **jordansparks** » Wed Feb 03, 2021 7:07 pm

Jay · Post by **Jay** » Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:30 am

Extremely exciting as ever Jordan.

1. I see a CBCT folder in 20.5 but no way to use OD with an existing DICOM or to scan a DICOM directly into OD. Currently we use a VIXWIN-INVIVO bridge and INVIVO saves the final image as a DICOM and/or INVIVO format. So question is...how to make this work.?

2. Secondly could OD be use as an STL file viewer? This is important for 3D models which is more futuristic than CBCT which has around for much longer in dentistry. This will not only allow storing digital models in STL format but also raw scans from open format intraoral scanners like 3-Shape TRIOS.

3. Can a CANON DSLR camera be used to take patient photos into OD in an AAO style layout and optionally combined with PAN and CEPH?

4. Lastly you should eventually allow people to drag images into the OD mounts. This would allow us to import and mount images that are in a Windows folder (or sent to us by another dental office) into a familiar mount.

Post by **jordansparks** » Thu Feb 11, 2021 3:45 pm

1. Well, where do they save the image? Go find the image. Copy/paste into Open Dental. There are lots of ways to paste/import.
2. Not yet, sorry.
3. Yes, you can do literally any photo montage layout, with any combination of image sizes, into a mount.
4. We do allow dragging into mounts from windows folders. That's one of the many ways to paste/import.

jmazzie · Post by **jmazzie** » Mon Feb 15, 2021 2:36 pm

This is exciting news!
I do have one question which adds to mkings message. You said you wouldn't be able to convert from other software is that something that could come down the line or is it not in the roadmap?

Also would down the line adding imaging templates be possible? This would be our biggest feature that would be missed

Not a big deal to me but more just wondering. We had just done our conversion from PracticeWorks and were planning in 2-3 months time to switch imaging softwares. This news comes at a great time!

Aldus · Post by **Aldus** » Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:40 pm

What format will OD save the acquired TWAIN images?

Post by **jordansparks** » Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:48 pm

Open Dental saves acquired Twain radiographs as TIF. I'm not sure what you mean by "adding image templates". You can edit or add mounts at any time. But you cannot change existing mount layouts yet, if that's what you are asking. For example, if you have a 4BW mount, you can't add a 5th image to it. But you could create a 4BW mount with a few extra spots for certain situations. In other words, you can edit the templates, but not the ones you've already assigned images to. But you could copy/paste them to a different mount. Image conversions aren't really on our roadmap at the moment. Hopefully, you could keep viewing old images in the old software, and copy/paste any that were important.

rhaber123 · Post by **rhaber123** » Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:16 am

Can we take a screenshot of existing x-rays, or patient photos, on the screen, and have them saved automatically in OD?

Like a screenshot of x-rays in an email, or x-rays in another imaging software, or photos from an intra oral scanner, etc....

Post by **jordansparks** » Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:55 am

I'm not sure what you mean by automatically. You would take your screenshot with alt-PrtScn, or with Snip-n-sketch, or by any other means. You would then paste into a category in the Imaging module. Your resolution won't be as good with a screenshot, but it might be good enough for what you need. You'll get better resolution by using some other kind of copy/paste, export, drag file, etc.

rhaber123 · Post by **rhaber123** » Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:37 pm

Did not know that. That answer the question. Thank you.

rhaber123 · Post by **rhaber123** » Fri Feb 19, 2021 7:59 am

Is there a link to the online manual that has the instructions on how to set this up with different sensors or intraoral cameras?

jmazzie · Post by **jmazzie** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:38 am

Thanks for the information Mounts were what we were looking for and i just misunderstood their use.

Last question I got for you is there a planned release for 20.5 stable or is it still a ways out?

Post by **jordansparks** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:35 pm

About 2 weeks

Jay · Post by **Jay** » Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:41 pm

Can the OD DICOM viewer handle multi-frame DICOM files?

Post by **jordansparks** » Thu Feb 25, 2021 7:32 am

Really good question. No. Our DICOM viewer can currently be described as lightweight. It was built to handle single XDR images, which was the only file format example that we had. It can likely handle other similar single DICOM images as well, but it won't know what to do with multi-frame. What software would this be coming from? If you want us to support it, you could email me a sample file.

RickInHouston · Post by **RickInHouston** » Mon Mar 01, 2021 5:58 am

This is great news (I think) for an Apteryx user.

I have XDR sensors. I also have plates - ScanX. Is there a way to bring those over?

Post by **jordansparks** » Tue Mar 02, 2021 1:38 pm

Haven't tested with ScanX, but we did add features intended to support it. See manual version 20.5
https://www.opendental.com/manual205/images.html
The Import Automatically feature will pull images into Open Dental as they are scanned in ScanX.

nickgdmd · Post by **nickgdmd** » Mon Mar 08, 2021 3:39 am

Hi,

Will it work with hamamatsu sensors. Rebranded sensors.
Like videodentalconcepts from Florida sells these sensors.

Thanks
Nick

Post by **jordansparks** » Wed Mar 10, 2021 7:24 am

If Hamamatsu provides a TWAIN driver, then it will work. They almost certainly do. A slightly better option would be if we could implement a native driver. I've been pestering Hamamatsu for months, to no avail. I will wear them down eventually.

jmazzie · Post by **jmazzie** » Thu Mar 11, 2021 9:00 am

Tested so far with the twain for CareStream RVG sensors and Twain for XDR both are working great in case anyone needed to know

Also planning to make a feature request for this but would it be possible to make it so the image mount shows up in the Image tab section of the Chart module instead of the individual images

Post by **jordansparks** » Fri Mar 12, 2021 11:01 pm

Oh rats. I think I totally forgot about showing mounts over in the Chart module.

SriramChellappan · Post by **SriramChellappan** » Sun Mar 14, 2021 1:12 pm

The TWAIN driver needs to be installed only in database / web server? All workstations can use the driver installed in the server and will not look for locally installed driver?

Post by **jordansparks** » Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:48 pm

As with any scanner, installing a TWAIN driver would be done on individual workstations and would not have anything to do with the server.

jmazzie · Post by **jmazzie** » Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:31 pm

Been testing over the last couple weeks with our patients have the only issue that has come up is when acquiring images it closes OpenDental on occasion with an ntdll.dll error in the event viewer. Has anyone else come across this yet?

Otherwise its working great!

bikesailfly · Post by **bikesailfly** » Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:54 pm

I would like to know what graphics card you are running when you program and test. My CBCT people had a brand specific recommendation. I know that this early it will likely change but I am in the process of buying new computers, currently run a scan x and know your advice will be better then my or my IT guys random guess. Sooo.

What brand and specs of graphics should I be looking for with my new computers? ( I love opendental and am so happy to have imaging with you). Do you have any time frame on supporting mass import so I can totally dump my old imaging (eaglesoft). Take my money please!!!

Post by **jordansparks** » Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:58 am

Any graphics card will work. Single images do not overload a graphics card.

When I started my practice in '99, the retiring dentist had lots of charts full of radiographs. I put them all the back room and started over. We had to go the the back room to look at older radiographs sometimes, but it was surprisingly rare. Usually, radiographs go along with a new exam, and the old radiographs don't really matter. My point is that you could do the same thing when switching imaging software.

jmazzie · Post by **jmazzie** » Thu May 06, 2021 12:49 pm

I moved this to its own thread.
-Jordan

mking · Post by **mking** » Tue Jun 29, 2021 11:27 am

I moved this to its own thread.
-Jordan

then · Post by **then** » Sun Oct 10, 2021 6:34 pm

jordansparks wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 10, 2021 7:24 am
If Hamamatsu provides a TWAIN driver, then it will work. They almost certainly do. A slightly better option would be if we could implement a native driver. I've been pestering Hamamatsu for months, to no avail. I will wear them down eventually.

Our office uses quickray HD sensor (we bought this from video dental concepts) with imaging sw XrayVision4 (from apteryx) which we bridged from OD.
Since Apteryx is nearing EOL, we thought to try out OD imaging feature. So we called the support team from quickray and they gave us driver and twain (during installation we notice name Hamamatsu show up somewhere) .
We are able to capture xray image and but lost several important feature such as
1. being able to go back to redo previous capture (we have to quit the on-going capture and delete image first)
2. being able to see thumbnail of all xrays and intra-oral image in one window

so we are thinking of:
1. convert to XDR (or Schick) which seems fully tested for OD.
Does the the build-in native sw work similar to XDR imaging software? it seems we might need to get XDR loaner to understand its feature.
2. or find apteryx replacement (XVweb?)

It would be nice if OD has full feature image control so we don't have to deal with EOL product.

btw, apologize if this thread has been moved/change. I don't know what/where the new link is.

bbennion · Post by **bbennion** » Fri Nov 05, 2021 9:27 am

Is there a way to have my fmx flow through the fmx mount without having to hit acquire->start before capturing every image?

Using Jazz Sensors. Images work great but i can only capture one image per time i click "acquire->start."

Post by **jordansparks** » Sat Nov 06, 2021 6:14 pm

From https://www.opendental.com/manual/senso ... ility.html
Make sure you have the box checked to show Twain UI. And RESTART Open Dental after you check it. It's designed to only need to click Capture once.

bbennion · Post by **bbennion** » Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:21 am

If anyone runs into the same thing: Turns out I had it all setup correctly on the open dental side of things, but I had an application for the Jazz Sensor software on my computer that I had to go and edit to allow multiple radiographs. Works great now. Thank you!

Nate · Post by **Nate** » Mon Dec 27, 2021 10:38 am

Running OpenDental 21.4.11, I noticed when using MouthWatch intraoral camera for direct capture of images into OD the capture window is very small and if adjusted it goes back to small size the next time it is used. I have a 24" monitor with OD full screen and Intraoral capture window is 3 1/2"x 2 3/4" and centered at bottom of screen. When we used Apteryx for intraoral images, we had 6 1/2" x 5" window and centered in middle of the screen so it can easily be used to see when capturing an image. It actually would remember the size and location of the window which I think would be helpful in OD as well.

As enhancements are made to the imaging module, I would also suggest that Intraoral camera images have option to pre-select the corresponding file category to store the images rather than just defaulting to 'Patient Information' category. Similar to the planned feature for radiographs/mounts to automatically go to their pre-defined folder category (Pano to pano folder, BW's to BW folder, FMX to FMX folder).
Thanks,
Nathan

Post by **jordansparks** » Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:03 am

Those are both great suggestions and have been added to the top of the priority list in:
https://www.opendental.com/site/imaging ... ments.html

then · Post by **then** » Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:22 pm

Hi Jordan, I am testing 21.4.15 xray imaging feature.
I found a bit cumbersome that I will have to manually unmount current image before i can retake.
it would be great to have existing xray image unmounted automatically.
Not sure if the latest 21.4.18 have that feature yet but i have added this into feature request.

Post by **jordansparks** » Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:49 am

I thought we added a retake button to 21.4, but it is admittedly mediocre. It got reworked slightly in version 22.1. I can't figure out how to make it completely "automatic". I mean you have to tell the software somehow that this is a retake and not the next one in the series. We got it down to 2 clicks: click to close the twain window to stop the automatic capture, then click the retake button to back it up and start the automatic capture again. The retake button should automatically remove it from the mount and put it in the unmounted area.

enamelrod · Post by **enamelrod** » Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:54 am

Man you have been extra busy on this one. Any hopes of an import from apteryx db?

then · Post by **then** » Tue Jan 25, 2022 6:03 pm

jordansparks wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:49 am
I thought we added a retake button to 21.4, but it is admittedly mediocre. It got reworked slightly in version 22.1. I can't figure out how to make it completely "automatic". I mean you have to tell the software somehow that this is a retake and not the next one in the series. We got it down to 2 clicks: click to close the twain window to stop the automatic capture, then click the retake button to back it up and start the automatic capture again. The retake button should automatically remove it from the mount and put it in the unmounted area.

Okay maybe the version i tested (21.4.15) didn't have the auto unmount feature yet.
In this version, say after i have done taking all BW images and close the twain but decided to go back and retake, I would select one of image i want to replace, click acquire, click start. There is no retake button but start button would work only after i manually unmount existing image.

Post by **jordansparks** » Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:44 pm

The retake button is only present in the middle of a sequence. If you are retaking after completing the sequence, then you would manually unmount the one you were interested in, then recapture. At least for now. I'll begin considering the workflow for a retake after finishing a series.

jmazzie · Post by **jmazzie** » Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:28 am

Sorry for opening an old thread but i wanted to see if there were plans to change the requested image format from twain sources or have a select able option between (tiff, jpeg, png) based on mount or device

epicurean · Post by **epicurean** » Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:29 pm

Hi Jeff,
May I ask which specific windows driver for Kodak Carestream are you using for the 6100 and 6200 sensors?