Canadian E-claims
Canadian E-claims
Hi Gordon:
When are we going to revisit Canadian E-claims again? A definite answer will be much appreciated.
When are we going to revisit Canadian E-claims again? A definite answer will be much appreciated.
- jordansparks
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I know this isn't what you will want to hear, and I know this will probably make you (understandably) mad as hell. But it's currently a low priority. I have to do what's best for the future of the company and Canadian e-claims just isn't it right now. Here's why.
Let's say there are approximately 12 pieces to the total e-claims puzzle, which would include e-claims, estimates, benefits, attachments, status, payments, reports, etc. In the US, we are allowed to implement any portion of that, and actually most software companies implement none of it, leaving it to third parties. We implement maybe 3 or 4 of the components of the US system, and we are gradually bringing more of it on board. Just this week, we will finally have a functional integrated attachments piece.
Now contrast this with Canada, where they require every single one of the 12 or so pieces to be fully 100% implemented, tested, and approved. It's simply unreasonable and unworkable. When we first started, we really had no idea that the Canadian government could possibly have their heads so far up their butts that they would instist on 100% complete functionality of all components before even simple claims could be sent. And the more pieces of the US system that we've worked on, the more overwhelming the Canadian counterpart has become.
It'll be a couple of years. I really am truly sorry.
Let's say there are approximately 12 pieces to the total e-claims puzzle, which would include e-claims, estimates, benefits, attachments, status, payments, reports, etc. In the US, we are allowed to implement any portion of that, and actually most software companies implement none of it, leaving it to third parties. We implement maybe 3 or 4 of the components of the US system, and we are gradually bringing more of it on board. Just this week, we will finally have a functional integrated attachments piece.
Now contrast this with Canada, where they require every single one of the 12 or so pieces to be fully 100% implemented, tested, and approved. It's simply unreasonable and unworkable. When we first started, we really had no idea that the Canadian government could possibly have their heads so far up their butts that they would instist on 100% complete functionality of all components before even simple claims could be sent. And the more pieces of the US system that we've worked on, the more overwhelming the Canadian counterpart has become.
It'll be a couple of years. I really am truly sorry.
Jordan Sparks, DMD
http://www.opendental.com
http://www.opendental.com
It is certainly unreasonable that canadian authorities are asking for this. Goverment incompetency is a world wide phenomenon, as I am sure you in the US also have experienced a fair share of it in many matters of even more importance.
Since 3.5 years ago when I joined this membership, I insisted to be a paying member, because I believe your idea of an open-licensed software is a brilliant way to make a perfect software for dentistry and I wanted to be a small part of it. As you may remember The E-claims issue was my first concern then and now. Since then tens of other Canadian and American software companies have been successful in getting certified for Canadian e-claims. Opendental, on the other hand, kept hoping that an "unknown" so called company will develop the Canadian E-claims for it very soon. After 2 years it became increasingly evident that this so called "company" is not serious in this matter so we embarked on doing this ourselves only to realize, one and half year later, that this is of "low priority". Meanwhile, we (my staff and I) have invested time, money and effort in making Opendental our choice.
So, I am not mad because you could not live up to your expectations but dissapointed that it has taken you so long to realize this. I maybe dissappointed in you but I am sure as hell mad at myself.
Since 3.5 years ago when I joined this membership, I insisted to be a paying member, because I believe your idea of an open-licensed software is a brilliant way to make a perfect software for dentistry and I wanted to be a small part of it. As you may remember The E-claims issue was my first concern then and now. Since then tens of other Canadian and American software companies have been successful in getting certified for Canadian e-claims. Opendental, on the other hand, kept hoping that an "unknown" so called company will develop the Canadian E-claims for it very soon. After 2 years it became increasingly evident that this so called "company" is not serious in this matter so we embarked on doing this ourselves only to realize, one and half year later, that this is of "low priority". Meanwhile, we (my staff and I) have invested time, money and effort in making Opendental our choice.
So, I am not mad because you could not live up to your expectations but dissapointed that it has taken you so long to realize this. I maybe dissappointed in you but I am sure as hell mad at myself.
How about if you guys settle on a compromise. Maybe somebody in Jordan's team can work on a small part of the Canadian claims thing for each version that comes out. It would be good to have a goal for a certain date (or several smaller goals for various dates). This would show progress and the good folks in Canada can feel they aren't left out.
Jorge Bonilla, DMD
By the way, Kderhami, your web site is impressive!
Jorge Bonilla, DMD
By the way, Kderhami, your web site is impressive!
Thank you all for showing interest in the subject.By the way, I posted a reply to George 2 days ago, but for some reason it didn't appear. George I'll more than happy to tell you how easy it was to do a website that's very inexpensive. Just e-mail me.
As far as the e-claim goes, I had already suggested both your ideas 2 years ago and I am still willing to do my part to help out. i will be more than willing to help out in any shape or form to develop this e-claim.
As far as the e-claim goes, I had already suggested both your ideas 2 years ago and I am still willing to do my part to help out. i will be more than willing to help out in any shape or form to develop this e-claim.
- jordansparks
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I like the idea of chipping away at it with each version. It's just discouraging to me that nobody can see the impressive work that we've already done, and that this strategy will continue to result in no noticeable change to the end users. If I had to estimate, I'd say we are currently 50% done. I'll put it on the future versions page phrased in this manner.
Jordan Sparks, DMD
http://www.opendental.com
http://www.opendental.com
If it is just add-on modules to OD, I am willing to give it a try on the coding but since it does effect the core of OD system as per Dr. Sparks. I am kinda sit and wait.
We do lots of integration with banks here at my company and I just don't understand why Canada make data exchange so hard ?.
Since my wife is used to paper claim ever since she associates and now open her own. Mailing isn't that bad but e claim would be much better.
We do lots of integration with banks here at my company and I just don't understand why Canada make data exchange so hard ?.
Since my wife is used to paper claim ever since she associates and now open her own. Mailing isn't that bad but e claim would be much better.
Since eClaims are mandatory for our business, we have had a one-way bridge between OD and Adstra PMP developed for us (frankly speaking, I would have gladly given this same money to help the development of Canadian eClaims in OD instead).
The bridge allows us to send patient and procedure information from OD to Adstra; the eClaims are then sent from Adstra, and our clients can know right away how much their insurance covers. We've been using it for a few months in production with OD 4.6. I plan to test it during the holidays with OD 5.4.
It's a work around that works for us. If anyone is interested let me know.
The bridge allows us to send patient and procedure information from OD to Adstra; the eClaims are then sent from Adstra, and our clients can know right away how much their insurance covers. We've been using it for a few months in production with OD 4.6. I plan to test it during the holidays with OD 5.4.
It's a work around that works for us. If anyone is interested let me know.
Thanks I don't mind to pay for one computer with full license as long as we can still use OD as the main program and use the brigde for eclaim. This is the only option so far for Canada until another few years when OD is ready for eClaim in canada
They have an office next to where I work I will give them a visit
They have an office next to where I work I will give them a visit
Thanks Mifa.
Happy New Year everyone
By the way kderhami who did you contact from Astra ?
http://www.adstra.com/index.htm is this the correct site ?
Happy New Year everyone
By the way kderhami who did you contact from Astra ?
http://www.adstra.com/index.htm is this the correct site ?
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Hi.
I'm new to OpenDent. I've be programming in .NET since the beta 1 days, and have spent a tiny amount of time digging through the current code base (primarily v5.2). I am trying to help out a local dentist to get OpenDent up and running (under Linux mostly). One of the things I was asked about was Canadian e-claims.
If I may ask a couple of questions:
How much actual demand is there for Canadian e-claims?
Exactly what kind of technical challenges does one face trying to implement Canadian e-claims? A very broad/open ended question I know.
I'm new to OpenDent. I've be programming in .NET since the beta 1 days, and have spent a tiny amount of time digging through the current code base (primarily v5.2). I am trying to help out a local dentist to get OpenDent up and running (under Linux mostly). One of the things I was asked about was Canadian e-claims.
If I may ask a couple of questions:
How much actual demand is there for Canadian e-claims?
Exactly what kind of technical challenges does one face trying to implement Canadian e-claims? A very broad/open ended question I know.
- jordansparks
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You might look back through some previous discussions. It's very complicated. What it really comes down to in the end is that we would have to suspend all other development and focus solely on this feature for one to two months. That's a very expensive proposition for us. Most other features only take a few days. Sacrificing such a large number of competing features could set us back in other areas enough to seriously impact our ability to compete in the US market.
Jordan Sparks, DMD
http://www.opendental.com
http://www.opendental.com
I am a US user so it doesn't affect me other than the overall success of OD.
Having said that it seems to me Canada might be a ripe market for OD ... If there are only a few others who can submit they might jump at OD ? Maybe I am wrong ( I was once ) but I think it would be worth investing time so it is completed by the end of the year.
just my 2 cents
steve
Having said that it seems to me Canada might be a ripe market for OD ... If there are only a few others who can submit they might jump at OD ? Maybe I am wrong ( I was once ) but I think it would be worth investing time so it is completed by the end of the year.
just my 2 cents
steve
steve
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I'm Canadian (but not a dentist). If I could see enough demand for it, I'd consider taking a crack at implementing Canadian e-claims.
Last year I worked with one client integrating their EMR system with the provincial health care system, so I can appreciate how complicated this could be.
So, I guess if there are any Canadian users who what e-claims, this might be the time to speak up. Or, likewise, if anybody has started on e-claims could I'd like to know about it.
Last year I worked with one client integrating their EMR system with the provincial health care system, so I can appreciate how complicated this could be.
So, I guess if there are any Canadian users who what e-claims, this might be the time to speak up. Or, likewise, if anybody has started on e-claims could I'd like to know about it.
- jordansparks
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We already dedicated well over a month to implementing Canadian e-claims. You will see extensive implementation throughout the source code. I would say we are maybe 60% done and yet nowhere close to completion.
Jordan Sparks, DMD
http://www.opendental.com
http://www.opendental.com
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- jordansparks
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I would support this idea, if anybody is interested pls. contact me at syscon@interbaun.com or Tom Opgenorth.creat0r wrote:Perhaps a workable solution will be for the practitioners up in CA to pool $ and develop this module. Split up the costs upon many and share the results and code development to further the open source development.
Just a thought
#Joseph
tdong, kdherami,
I'm (finally) ready to send you the bridge program. I could not find a way to attach a zip file to a private message in the forum, so could you both send me an email to mfabre@cp3int.com and I'll attach it to my reply.
I'm (finally) ready to send you the bridge program. I could not find a way to attach a zip file to a private message in the forum, so could you both send me an email to mfabre@cp3int.com and I'll attach it to my reply.
Re: Canadian E-claims
Hello Mifa,
I am a Canadian dentist considering OD for a new practice from scratch. Can you tell me what I have to do to submit e-claims? Can you suggest digital sensors that integrate well with OD?
I am a Canadian dentist considering OD for a new practice from scratch. Can you tell me what I have to do to submit e-claims? Can you suggest digital sensors that integrate well with OD?
Re: Canadian E-claims
Well we are still seeing demonstration from ASTRA for eclaim and my wife still deciding.
We are using Kodak and our friend using Schnick from Patterson both works great with OD using bridge. and I think OD does integrate with one of the sensor don't remember which one but still has very limited functionalities still work great with bridge ask Dr.Sparks
Canadian Eclaim probably won't be available for another 5 years.
Before using OD consider this, you need to update Procedure Code price manually yearly. Send paper for claim. if eclaim is a must then use ASTRA with the bridge provide by Mifa (worst case is that you have to double enter for eclaim using Astra software). Cost $3000 for Astra
Other than that OD is great
We are using Kodak and our friend using Schnick from Patterson both works great with OD using bridge. and I think OD does integrate with one of the sensor don't remember which one but still has very limited functionalities still work great with bridge ask Dr.Sparks
Canadian Eclaim probably won't be available for another 5 years.
Before using OD consider this, you need to update Procedure Code price manually yearly. Send paper for claim. if eclaim is a must then use ASTRA with the bridge provide by Mifa (worst case is that you have to double enter for eclaim using Astra software). Cost $3000 for Astra
Other than that OD is great
Re: Canadian E-claims
Thanks for information. Wondering how does one add the Canadian Procedure Codes?
Re: Canadian E-claims
well we ask our receptionist to enter one by one ?
update price is also enter one by one
unless ODA gives us those Procedure Code and Prices change on computer file format then I can write code to update that automatically. As for now they sent us a booklet every year. I will look into that this year
But luckily for you since I already have all the procedure codes and the pricings. And I don't mind to share that with you. OD allows xml export and import but you are still stuck with the price.
I think I sent Dr. Sparks a copy of blank database with Canadian Procedure Code entered with 2007 price list.
Anyway if you want a blank database with the current 2008 pricings then I can create one for you if and only if you decide to use OD since I don't want to wast my time for nothing
update price is also enter one by one
unless ODA gives us those Procedure Code and Prices change on computer file format then I can write code to update that automatically. As for now they sent us a booklet every year. I will look into that this year
But luckily for you since I already have all the procedure codes and the pricings. And I don't mind to share that with you. OD allows xml export and import but you are still stuck with the price.
I think I sent Dr. Sparks a copy of blank database with Canadian Procedure Code entered with 2007 price list.
Anyway if you want a blank database with the current 2008 pricings then I can create one for you if and only if you decide to use OD since I don't want to wast my time for nothing
Re:
I have "CDAnet Message Formats" for Canadian Dental E-Claims. If anybody wants to join me financially for Canadian E-claims please drop me an email at syscon@interbaun.com (as I don't check this forum very often and I don't receive any email reply notifications either).kderhami wrote:Sure, depending on the cost, I have been saying this since 2 years ago.
As to cost I don't know what will it be I know the certification alone will be about 2K+ CAD plus the programming.
I'm not a programmer so we would need to outsource the programming. I was thinking of releasing the claim under GPL after we recover the cost.
The programing itself should be implemented as an add-on modules (I think) to retain compatibility with new OD versions.
I think Dr. Spark has mention 60% is done so I don't know what is better option, continue this project or start from the scratch. When I was talking to CDAnet they have mention it to implement E-Claim takes about 3-months of programming.
Regards,
Joseph