6.9.3 Direct X bug

[Rickliftig]

Went from 6.9.2 to 6.9.3 and now directx is no longer working. No errors generated however, just simple tooth chart shows.

[jordansparks]

Yes. Switch to OpenGL until we work it out.

[Rickliftig]

Glad to say that' it's working in 6.9.5

[Rickliftig]

6.9.6 - not working again

[jordansparks]

Yes yes, I know. We got it, though. Version 6.9.7 is where it's all working much better. Thanks for your patience.

[Rickliftig]

And it is working in 6.9.7 as promised!

[jclaydds]

6.9.7

Still not working for me. I have already done the Direct X Microsoft download that was mentioned in a different thread a few days ago.

You see to be making some progress. I was getting an "unhandled exception" with Version 6.9.5 and below when I tried to access the new graphical perio chart. On 6.9.7, at least I don't get the error but the graphical perio chart and the 3d tooth chart is still not functioning. Using the Open Gl is still working as a workaround for the 3d tooth chart.

[jordansparks]

The download might actually be interefering. Go to your control panel, programs, and uninstall any old version of DirectX that you see, especially the purple circle with the yellow X. DirectX is included as part of Windows usually, and there shouldn't be any need for a separate download. What version of Windows are you using? We will be doing a little more fine tuning, but there will always be the rare computer where it just won't work. A new graphics card or graphics driver update will usually fix those rare situations.

[jclaydds]

Still no luck in getting the Direct X graphics to work with version 6.9.7. If I understood your instructions correctly, you asked me to go to Control Panel, Add/Remove Programs and Uninstall any old Direct X installations. I found none. I had done a Direct X update from Microsoft that was mentioned in another thread. I checked the Microsoft documentation at the download link I used and it said that an Uninstall was not possible. The only option was to do a System Restore. I decided to go back and do a "System Restore" to restore my computer to the way it previously was before the Direct X update. Still no success in getting the 3d tooth chart or the graphical perio chart to function properly with the Driect X option selcted in Open Dental.

I have many computers in my office and I had only ran the Direct X Update on one computer. We are not getting the 3d tooth chart or graphical perio chart working on any of the machines. We have them all switched to Open GL to get the 3d tooth chart to work.

I am using Windows XP Pro Version 2002 Service Pack 3

[jordansparks]

I'm going to guess that it has to do with the version of Windows. Possibly, it is working on Vista and Windows 7, but not on XP. We will be looking into it further over the next few days.

[Rickliftig]

FWIW - my test machine is running windows 7. vers 6.9.7 running fine

[kapricorn]

It looks to me like version 9 is the cut off for xp and 10 was meant for vista and Directx 11 was meant for windows 7. I am able to find websites that allows you to install 10 on an xp machine but it is modified code and not supported by microsoft. Looks like the version requirement may need to be 9.0c or higher or we are going to have trouble with all the xp machines still out there.

[jordansparks]

It's far more complicated than that. Our "version 10" code works fine on some XP machines. We've tested it. I think it's only certain features which are version 10 specific that would be a problem. Our code also fails on some Vista machines. We're trying to find the best blend, and we are working hard to make is function for nearly all computers. It will still be a while until we know what percentage of computers will have problems because we're simply not done optimizing it yet. But for those computers, there is always the option of using OpenGL, and there is always the option of getting a better graphics card. That's what the real problem is. Graphics cards.

[jclaydds]

Version 6.9.10

Still not having any luck getting Direct X to run on my machines. As you recall, I am running Windows XP Pro, Version 2002, Service Pack 3

After I updated to 6.9.10, I tried to switch the graphics from Open GL to Direct X. It asked me to pick a format from bottom of page. I tried all 20 formats. When I selected each format, it told me that I needed to select another format because the format I selected would not support the Direct X tooth chart on my computer. I tried all 20 formats with no luck.

In a previous post, you indicated you felt the issue might be a problem with the graphics cards. My computers/monitors were purchased through the help of Dental Technology Consultants in March 2008 from Dell. Since the specs were specified by Dental Technology Consultants to Dell, I would not think the graphics cards in my machines were some type of "odd ball" graphics cards.

I went back to Open GL and it is still an acceptable work around .

Thanks

[jordansparks]

Thanks for the info. Still working on it. I'm hesitant to guess what the end result of all this will be because there are so many different ways it could go. Be sure to install the latest suggested DirectX from Microsoft. I think the instructions from the other thread to uninstall DirectX were misunderstood. I can't find that thread, but I thought it had to do with uninstalling a DirectX SDK, which is different.

[jclaydds]

Version 6.9.10 Windows XP Pro Version 2002 Service Pack 3

Here is the latest. I went to the following Microsoft Link:

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/deta ... 6652cd92a3

I used this link to update Direct X on my machine. After I did so, I am now able to select certain formats under Graphics, Direct X. I can now select Formats 1-6. Unfortunately, all of the these first 6 options still leaves the 3D tooth chart and perio chart blank. I can see the tooth numbers on the 3D tooth chart and the tooth numbers are even active. I can select a tooth number and tx plan a procedure on that tooth and it is functional. Just no teeth or any other graphics to be seen.

It is still not allowing me to select Formats 7-20 on my computer.

Still using Open GL with no problem

[jordansparks]

That is helpful information.

[jclaydds]

Version 6.9.11 Windows XP Pro Version 2002 Service Pack 3

Jordan,

Here is an update after installing Version 6.9.11. I selected Direct X under File, Graphics. I tried the first 6 formats. All yielded the same result. Here is the limited information that I can see on the 3d tooth chart using any of the 6 formats. I see the letter "S" that is used to denote a sealant. I can see the large Red "X's" that are placed through a tooth when it is treatment planned for an extraction. I can see the lines that are simulating a canal being obturated signifying a root canal. I can still see the tooth numbers but I cannot see any of the 3d drawings of the teeth or any restorations of any type.

In the graphical perio chart, it was previously blank as best as I can recollect. I can now see tooth numbers. I see several (~14) horizontal lines that go across the page which are likely part of the page formatting and I can see the legend information at the bottom of the page. No teeth are visible and none of the periodontal pocket measurements are visible.

Thanks

[jordansparks]

I think we're now leaning towards stopping about where we are right now. In other words, if you still can't see the DirectX, then you might just have to use OpenGL. On the vast majority of computers we've tested, the current strategy is working well. I might post more information later about whether it works on XP machines that we've tested. If it turns out that it won't work on XP, I'm OK with that since we tried our best. XP is 7 years old now and at the end of its life.

[jclaydds]

In March 2008, I installed approximately 15 new computers in my office. At that time it seemed to be an agreed consensus that I should use XP Pro rather than Vista for an Operating System. That was the advice of my hardware vendor as well - Dental Technolog Consultants (Dr. Lavine). If memory serves me correctly, I think I remember that being the consensus even on this forum that most people felt that we should avoid Vista if possible. It seems like I remember you posting that Vista seemed to occasionally cause some issues with Open Dental.

By your post above, it sounds like you are more comfortable with Windows 7. I don't think I am ready to upgrade 15-20 computers from Windows XP to Windows 7 just to get Direct X to function but it likely will need to happen at some point given that XP is an operating system that is several years old. Has anyone on the forum done an upgrade from XP to Windows 7? Was it a smooth process?

[Jorgebon]

I got a new server that's a windows 7 desktop. No problems at all. I have XP on the other computers. I find windows 7 to be probably the best version of windows I've seen.
Jorge Bonilla, DMD

[jordansparks]

Don't jump the gun. Maybe I shouldn't have said anything yet. I'm still not sure what we're going to do. One thing to consider is that nobody will lose any features in the graphical tooth chart by staying with OpenGL. It just looks slightly smoother in the new DirectX. And to print the graphical perio chart, you need DirectX. So it really doesn't seem so bad to me to stay on XP with a number of computers even if we decide it's not possible to support DirectX on XP. But like I said, we still don't know what we're going to do.

Oh, and I've always been a big fan of Vista, so that was probably someone else who said to use XP.

[jordansparks]

Great news. Version 6.9.11 has DirectX working well on 9 out of the 9 Windows XP computers that we tested. So I think we can get it working on your computers. I'll be posting a list of steps to take if it's not working. The troubleshooting list will probably end up on the Graphics page in our manual. Here's the rough draft:
After each step below, stop and test to see if DirectX is working. Once it's working, do not perform any more steps.
1) Install the latest DirectX runtime.
2) Update the graphics card driver.
...a) First try to locate the driver from the computer manufacturer's website.
...b) Otherwise, try to locate the driver from the graphics card manufacturer's website.
...c) As a last resort, try to use Windows Update to update the graphics card driver.
3) Install all express/critical Windows Updates.
4) Install the latest DirectX SDK.
Once we post the list above, it will include links, etc.

[jclaydds]

That is great news! I greatly appreciate your continued efforts on this issue. I'll be patient and not attempt any changes based on your rough draft. I want to be sure I am using proper links if any updates are needed so I'll wait on you to complete the draft.

I am out of town from Thursday-Sunday. If you have final instructions complete by the time I return, I'll plan on working through the steps to see if it resolves the problem and then I'll post an update. Thanks again!

[jordansparks]

The final instructions have been posted.
http://www.opendental.com/manual/graphics.html

[jclaydds]

Success!!!!

Jordan,

Being an XP Pro user and after much trial and error, I had just about given up on getting the Direct X graphics to work in Open Dental. I thought I was going to be one of the few users that it just wasn't going to work for. I tried your instructions going through all steps on my personal office computer. Maybe it was the most ornery, stubborn computer that I own. I did the Direct X runtime update, graphics card driver update, windows critical updates and Direct X SDK update. I tried the first several formats in Open Dental under the Direct X Graphics option and had no luck. I was about to give up when I got down to around format 8 or 9 and hit pay dirt! It worked! The 3d tooth chart is now working along with the graphical perio chart.

I have approximately 20 computers in my office all running XP Pro. FYI, the other computers are not being so stubborn. For some odd reason (even though the computer hardware is identical), I only have to run the Direct X runtime update on those and select Format 1 in Open Dental Direct X graphics and they are also functioning properly with both the 3d tooth chart and graphical perio chart.

Thanks for your persistence. It seems like we won this battle.

Jeff

One Happy Loyal Open Dental User

[atd]

I'm trying to get the Direct X graphics working, so far no luck. In the meantime though, the OpenGL does not work the same as it used to. The option it was using before is no longer in the list of graphics options. So what happened this morning (after upgrading last night) was that users couldn't select a tooth on the tooth chart - therefore couldn't enter anything as they normally do in the chart module. I tried changing the OpenGL to each of the options still available. They are now able to select teeth, but every time something changes on the chart the entire tooth chart is redrawn, not just that individual tooth. This is really slowing things down, especially for terminal server users. Just switching between modules takes a long time to refresh. Any idea why the OpenGL option I we've been using all along would no longer work?

[jordansparks]

The behavior seems to be exactly the same as before on my computer. There are three checkboxes about half way down that you can use to manipulate which formats show. The Show All Formats checkbox should show you about 40 formats. Is it not doing that?

[atd]

Yes, it is showing all 36 formats if I check that box - when the box is unchecked I only see 4. But the problem is if I choose the one that we were using before the graphical tooth chart no longer works - it displays but will not allow you to select teeth. Prior to the upgrade we were using #3 in the list - which has "Yes" for the Buffered option.

[drtech]

actually it is selecting teeth, you just can't see it...which is really hard to make it work on multiple teeth, but you can get by if you have to...try to enter a proc and you will find it actually is selecting...did that on mine too.

[jordansparks]

Use a format that does not use double-buffering. Double-buffering on my system appears to make it not work properly. I really don't think the behavior has changed there. I think the best explanation is that we don't know for sure what format you were using before you did the upgrade.

[atd]

I did make a note of the format used prior to the upgrade – it was #3, which does double-buffering..
I tried all 38 OpenGL graphic options. These are the results:

1-12 are the only options it will let me select. The rest give me an error message.

9-12 just show red and black – not readable.

1,2,5,6 are the only ones listed when the “Show All Formats” is unchecked.
These are the only 4 that “work”, but the entire graphic redraws when something in the chart is updated causing performance issues. The settings on these four all have the settings:
OpenGL=Yes
Windowed=Yes
Bitmapped=Yes
Palette=No
Accelerated=No
Buffered=No
ColorBits=16
DepthBits=32 or 16

3,7,4,8 are the only ones that show with the “Double-Buffering” checked. These do not cause the entire graphic to be redrawn, but it doesn’t show when you select a tooth so it's not usable.
OpenGL=Yes
Windowed=Yes
Bitmapped=No
Palette=No
Accelerated=No
Buffered=Yes
Colorbits=16
Depthbits=32 or 16

I’ve tried all 7 options for DirectX and get an error message for each one. Is there any way to “undo” my upgrade from yesterday without losing data? Users are reporting that they can “take a nap” while waiting for the screens to refresh.

[jordansparks]

Well, you certainly were thorough. Usually, in this situation, you would switch to 2D mode. That's why we have it sitting there as a fail-safe.

The good news is that your description was good enough for me to be able to pick a graphics format that closely matches your #3. And it also does not show the selected teeth, but is otherwise working great. So the fastest solution is going to be for us to try to get the double buffered formats working. I'll keep you posted.

[jordansparks]

OK, fixed. You should be able to use #3 now.

[atd]

Fantastic - thank you for the quick fix! Installed and working just as before.