Acquire series

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jordansparks
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Acquire series

Post by jordansparks » Sat Oct 30, 2021 4:28 pm

This comment was from another topic:
"...there are some feature that's not available such as... being able to go back to redo previous capture automatically (we have to quit the on-going capture and delete image first)"
I've been thinking about that for quite a few days. Originally, I thought it might be a shortcoming. But now I think it might be as good as it's going to get. Once you start a series, it's "automatic" in the sense that the sensor senses that it's been hit by x-rays, generates an image, and Open Dental then moves on to the next position in the mount. If you need to do a retake, you're going to have to click a button the software. There's just no way around that no matter how elegant we get. In this case, the button you click is to cancel out of the Twain UI. This is not explained anywhere, so we'll include this workflow in the manual. Then, right click to delete the bad image, and restart the capture from that point. I just don't see how this workflow could possibly be shortened in any way. I can see how we could add a feature to allow a retake while preserving the original so that you could choose between them, but that doesn't seem to be the complaint.

However, while I was testing this, I did notice that captured images are not showing immediately after each individual capture. This appears to be a bug. I'll spend the rest of the weekend tracking this down, trying to see which versions are affected, fixing it, etc. Maybe this bug is what's causing the confusion. You're supposed to see each image as you take it.
Jordan Sparks, DMD
http://www.opendental.com

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Re: Acquire series

Post by jordansparks » Sat Oct 30, 2021 5:08 pm

The bug is fixed. It only affected the beta 21.3.
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Re: Acquire series

Post by dqadri » Sat Oct 30, 2021 8:29 pm

Something that Vixwin does to address this workflow issue is to have a "unmounted xray image" section with 8 or so images at the bottom of each mount. When we are taking any type of series (for example 4 bitewings), if we take a 5th image, it will go the unmounted area, and then we decide what to do with it at that point. This way we can take a retake after seeing the image pop up on the screen, but not necessarily without stopping to delete a non-ideal image at that point. We usually will finish taking all the images and then remove the offending image, and place the new one into the mount and fix the remaining images into the proper place in the mount.
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Re: Acquire series

Post by jordansparks » Sun Oct 31, 2021 10:09 am

Clearly, an "unmounted" section is a good solution. I'm going to take your hint and describe a workflow for us to pursue. Let's say you are in position 3 of 18, and you just took a bad radiograph. Ideally, you would want a single button click that would move that bad radiograph down to the unmounted section, let you retake #3, and then continue with your flow with no interruptions. There should be no rearranging at the end, and you would probably just delete the unmounted radiograph. Ideally, the "unmounted" area would not show until needed, and it would probably have horizontal scroll to allow unlimited capacity. The unmounted area would need to be the right size so that you could compare the quality of each image with the ones in the mount itself.
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Re: Acquire series

Post by then » Sun Oct 31, 2021 10:32 am

Xrayvision (from Apteryx) do set aside unmounted section in case retake is needed so we have a choice to keep it or not.
The software do let us re-take current image so we don't need to continue until last teeth and go back to one that's bad.
By default software will assume you are taking good image and will advance to next mount until you click re-take.

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Re: Acquire series

Post by dqadri » Sun Oct 31, 2021 11:20 am

jordansparks wrote:
Sun Oct 31, 2021 10:09 am
Clearly, an "unmounted" section is a good solution. I'm going to take your hint and describe a workflow for us to pursue. Let's say you are in position 3 of 18, and you just took a bad radiograph. Ideally, you would want a single button click that would move that bad radiograph down to the unmounted section, let you retake #3, and then continue with your flow with no interruptions. There should be no rearranging at the end, and you would probably just delete the unmounted radiograph. Ideally, the "unmounted" area would not show until needed, and it would probably have horizontal scroll to allow unlimited capacity. The unmounted area would need to be the right size so that you could compare the quality of each image with the ones in the mount itself.
Yes, the issue is the workflow. Ideally, you don't stop to touch the mouse as you're taking a series of x-rays (in theory). The problem is that if you decided right away to retake an x-ray, they would all be one or more positions off until you manually fix it. A single click to swap out to the unmounted position would make it still flow. Personally I don't delete any x-rays until everything is fully exposed. Many of my assistants will take one x-ray, then rotate and reposition it on the mount and then shoot the next x-ray. I've been trying a long time to get them to improve their workflow because a FMX taken them 15 minutes where it takes me less than 5.

As an aside, several year ago I consulted with an Indian startup that was trying to use machine learning to help diagnose cavities on x-rays. I thought the first technical problem they would be trying to solve was to identify what type of x-ray and which teeth were on the x-ray so that they could focus their software on the correct teeth and area. Having this ability to analyze the x-ray within OD, and then to identify the teeth would help to identify poor images (and mark for a retake) and then move the x-rays into the right position on the mount.
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Lake Family Dentistry
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Re: Acquire series

Post by jordansparks » Sun Oct 31, 2021 1:07 pm

>Many of my assistants will take one x-ray, then rotate and reposition it on the mount
Why on earth would they need to rotate? Rotate is supposed to be automatic.
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Re: Acquire series

Post by dqadri » Sun Oct 31, 2021 3:27 pm

Not with all software systems. Right now I'm debugging and tracing my way through a PITA bug with Gendex's Vixwin Platinum and I haven't had a chance to demo the OD x-ray capture.

It also depends on the order that the operator likes to take their x-rays in. I do BWs first, then anterior PAs and then posterior PAs. The sensor doesn't know which orientation the image is in, but the mount does know the order that the series will go in, so rotations can be figured in. If I always start from the right molar and then work to left molar bitewings, it can be done without any hands on a keyboard or mouse.

Some assistants prefer a different x-ray order, which would change the internal rotations of the mount.
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Re: Acquire series

Post by jordansparks » Sun Oct 31, 2021 3:49 pm

So we need a feature to let people change the planned order right before they start. Right now, we assume that everyone can use the same order. It's currently customizable, but only one sequence for the whole office.
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Re: Acquire series

Post by jordansparks » Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:26 pm

An unmounted area is being built. It's going pretty well. Looks like it should work fine.
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Re: Acquire series

Post by jordansparks » Thu Nov 04, 2021 6:49 pm

The unmounted feature is complete.
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