Windows 10 acting as a server with the 1803 update

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Windows 10 acting as a server with the 1803 update

Postby Justin Shafer » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:57 pm

I have 2 people in this boat, and at various times the network clients can no longer access the file shares on the Server. This is a known problem that MS is aware of and according to the KB this won't be fixed until sometime later in June....

I have removed SMB1 and ran just SMB2\3 and still have issues.. So I am dropping it all down to SMB1.... So far it is working.... ?????

So... they recommend using SMB1 instead of SMB2.

So you get to enable SMB1 in programs and features on ALL computers running Windows 10.
Server needs SMB1 Server and Client
Workstations need just the SMB1 Client and if Windows 10 Pro enable SMB Direct, if Windows 10 Home enable SMB Automatic Removal (Yeah the doc bought some Windows 10 Home computers as well)

Reboot.

On the server you run:
Set-SmbServerConfiguration -EnableSMB1Protocol $true
Set-SmbServerConfiguration -EnableSMB2Protocol $false

From the workstations:
sc.exe config lanmanworkstation depend= bowser/mrxsmb10/nsi
sc.exe config mrxsmb10 start= auto
sc.exe config mrxsmb20 start= disabled

Reboot all the computers and you are now running strictly on the SMB1 protocol.

Anyone else having these issues? I just set this and hopefully it sticks.. The doc was having Open Dental, Yapi and myself look at this issue and I told him it's a bad idea at having this many people look at issue like this, because none of us knows what the other is doing. :D

I also enabled 4 services to be automatic:
DNS Client
Function Discovery Resource Publication
SSDP Discovery
UPnP Device Host

Not sure how necessary it is to have those running because I think with the Browser service available in SMB1 network discovery is working anyways... but SMB2\SMB3 just ain't working reliably without have to reboot a workstation throughout the day.

Feel free to chime in.. as I just set this configuration... 5 minutes ago! :D
This office is using a Dell Precision with Raid... Kinda wishing I made him spend the extra grand on a PowerEdge T330 with Server 2016 now.. :D

This is with the update that came out today:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-nz/help/4284835/windows-10-update-kb4284835
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Re: Windows 10 acting as a server with the 1803 update

Postby Justin Shafer » Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:26 pm

Well.. that didn't work.. same issues.. reverted!

Upgraded the Intel driver on the Windows 10 Box.. otherwise... I am going to either go to an older version of 10 or throw on Windows 7 or something.

I have another office actually running a different PMS and they haven't said there are any problems... But they are a small office and maybe they just reboot the workstations.. I should call them.

2 Dental Offices and 1 Home Office Attorney... Out of which 2 are having an issue.

Edit: Downgraded the Windows 10 server to 1709.. see if that just fixes everything.
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Re: Windows 10 acting as a server with the 1803 update

Postby JLM » Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:53 pm

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4034314/smbv1-is-not-installed-by-default-in-windows

SMB1 is enabled through turning on and off windows features in Windows 10.
I have windows 10 pro host and windows 7 guest vmware server because still running vixwin and it don't do smb2.
Weird thing is that the host refused to access the smb1 share on the server but no other computer in the office complains.

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Re: Windows 10 acting as a server with the 1803 update

Postby Justin Shafer » Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:25 pm

Yeah I have had the same reliability issues "network path not found" when trying to browse shares..

So far no problems with the server back on 1709. Think I am going to stay on 1709 for awhile with the server.

I posed a question here one guy said to try resolving the unc path by ip, after going to SMB1.. Haven't tried that... But.. my god... This is no good.

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/win ... a55010d959
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Re: Windows 10 acting as a server with the 1803 update

Postby drfredc » Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:15 am

Like many workgroup users, I've had all sorts of problems since 1803.

For starters, I downloaded netbscanner. https://www.nirsoft.net/utils/netbios_scanner.html It's a small utility program that gathers info about the current network and workstation configurations.

I ran it on my office workstation. It provides all the IP addresses for every workstation on the network, AND what workstation is the "master browser".
The server must be the master browser (YES). To force this setting across your network, you have to do the following.

Set Master browser Fix -- Run RegEdit (right click start menu, select Run (command line) and run regedit.
go to Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Browser\Parameters
MaintainServerList REG_SZ Set to "False" on every machine but the workgroup server.
On Server, set IsDomainMaster to "YES", MaintainServerList to "YES"
If left as Auto on the Server, it would probably work out. Best as "YES"

Also, every workstation must be part of the same workgroup, or it may be assigned the master browser for that workgroup. Control Panel/System provides access to changing the workgroup name. A restart is required after changing workgroups.

Configure every computer so it's IP address in manually set.

To set the IP address, right click on the network icon in the task bar and select "Open Network and Internet Settings"
Then select "Change Adapter Properties", click on the network in the screen that pops up,
then Properties, then Internet protocol version 4.


When setting IP addresses use the IP addresses that netscanner comes up with for each workstation and server.
Don't use autoconfig -- click "Use the following IP address and enter the IP address from netbscanner for that computer.

IP 192.169.0.1xx. each computer has it's own IP. FYI, this is for wired networks. Wifi might be different.
Mask 255.255.255.0
Gateway 192.168.0.1
DNS 192.168.0.1

After configuring a workstation or server close out of that stuff.

Open the file manager and Right click on the PC icon. Select "Manage"
Select "Services and Applications" then services
Scroll down to FunctionalDiscovery (two services) and set them to 'Auto delayed start'
Repeat with DNS Client, SSDP Discovery, and UPnP device host.

Then click out and restart the computers. I have found that running netbscanner on the server when all the workstations are started seems to speed this discovery process up.

Also, apparently it can take up to twenty minutes for any computer, including the server, to properly recognize other computers on the network. During this waiting period, you might try to open OpenDental and it won't connect to the server. You can close out and start it up again, and eventually it will connect. It may help to just run around and turn on all the workstations and log in. Then run NetBscanner on the server. Then start up OpenDental, but don't log in. Just proceed to the next workstation. Then come back to the first and log in... Most of the time it logs right in.

At least that was how it worked the last couple days... Fine print -- if it doesn't work, the router probably needs to be turned off for 10 seconds and turned back on. This doesn't seem to effect the existing connections with my router and system, so far. But it did allow workstations that were having trouble connecting to connect to the server.

Also, one other thing that sometimes pops up is some workstations that don't connect may require disconnecting and reconnecting the mapped drives on the workstations. Go to PC and right click and disconnect the mapped drives. Then go open the Server. And map the drives. Each drive must have the same mapped letter for Opendental to connect to it across the network.
-------------
Apparently, MS has rationalized that workgroups is too old and too open for attack. So it's abandoning the system... Presumably, it expects every small business that has been running workgroups will have to buy a server, get an IT manager, etc, etc... Or, this is a way for MS to make a lot more money... Take your pick. There may be a domain server in everyone's future...

Also, I saved all these in the Opendental wiki that is in the tools menu in case I need to refer to it later.

Some references
https://pattersonsupport.custhelp.com/a ... er-browser

https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Fo ... networking
Last edited by drfredc on Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Windows 10 acting as a server with the 1803 update

Postby Justin Shafer » Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:07 pm

I am curious what Open Dental technicians have seen, thanks for the post. Still have that one office on 1709. I have another office with 1803 on the server and 1 computer in an operatory on 1803 and need to ask the doc how that computer is doing since the last windows updates (probably not any better), the rest of the clients are on Windows 7, no issues.
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Re: Windows 10 acting as a server with the 1803 update

Postby drfredc » Sat Aug 04, 2018 11:23 am

My workgroup server has 1803 update. 1803 really messed some aspect of the Windows 10 shell up for this computer. The start menu doesn't work (dead button), the notification menu doesn't work (dead button), Edge browser boots for a second then shuts down.

I searched out all sorts of blog posts on how to fix these problems and tried a few, none of them worked.

So, I figured best just leave these W10 shell things screwed up while it runs most everything else fine. Basically, we don't use Edge (or can use it on workstation if needed), don't care about notifications, and you can right click on the start menu and get a variant of the start menu to show up... So it's all good. Also, the other workstations are all running 1803 fine without these problems.

I figure there will be another W10 update soon enough that will fix these things, or they will continue to plod along... From reading MS support posts, there's lots of problems like this floating around in W10 updated world.

Also, before regediting all the workstations to master browser as false, and the master browser to Yes for the workgroup server, some background W10 network software set the master browser to the workstation with the most recent update... So if you hold off on updating your server, and update other workstation, and are using a workgroups server, you're likely to end up with some operatory workstation as the master browser. And things may not work as expected.

Also, W7 computers running OD don't seem to be effected -- I've got Open Dental installed on my CEREC machine and it boots and connects via wifi just fine with no master browser issues...
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Re: Windows 10 acting as a server with the 1803 update

Postby Justin Shafer » Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:02 pm

For the start being dead, compare the dcom config (Component Services in Administrative Tools) with a good computer and the bad computer. I spent a ton of time reading and came up with my own fix as a last ditch effort. Has worked for me everytime when nothing else does. Older applications change the dcom config and newer windows dislikes it.
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Re: Windows 10 acting as a server with the 1803 update

Postby savvy » Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:35 pm

I have Win 10 ver1803..however, when following drfredc's Master browser fix instructions....
\..................\Browser\Parameters.. is not shown.
there is no Parameters in my Browser file.
So, now what??

Cheers!
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Cheers!!!
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Re: Windows 10 acting as a server with the 1803 update

Postby Justin Shafer » Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:12 am

So I am bored at the moment and decided to revisit the 1803, and read something new I didn't know about.. which might explain some of the issues I was having.

http://www.surfacetablethelp.com/2018/06/direct-ethernet-connection-network-path-not-found-in-windows-10-v1803-update.html

"* The Network path names are case sensitive in version 1803. If the the network path names includes more than one initial uppercase letter, Windows 10 keep searching for a network path case sensitive and then fails. You’d better change the network path or PC name to lower case letters and numbers only."

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-networking/windows-10-explorer-network-error-0x80070035-the/f30a1112-ffa7-4230-b843-ecc7ab8b5119?page=4

"So, somewhere in the bowels of the Windows programming is a GUI property that changes the spelling of computer names to upper and lower case for the network path names and then makes the search for a network path case sensitive. So if your computers are named using more than one initial uppercase letter (i.e., TomG or SallyM) you will probably have this issue as the network path names will be Tomg and Sallym."

I name the server.. SERVER... I wonder what would happen if I called it all lowercase.. server.. or just.. Server. In addition to the other stuff.. if this is the case, and that is all that is going on, I am going to be pissed. :D

Might as well see what happens...
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Re: Windows 10 acting as a server with the 1803 update

Postby Justin Shafer » Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:08 am

Well I don't think the case sensitive unc path made a difference.. but I when I can't resolve by \\server I can resolve by \\ipaddress of the server.. so made the ip the A to Z Path for OpenDentImages and Apteryx in the program link... See what that does.. I am sure the office will call me if it doesn't work out. :D

Night!
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Re: Windows 10 acting as a server with the 1803 update

Postby rajg » Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:47 am

I have been using IP addresses all along. Now I know why my system did not see this issue. BTW I block port 80 access for all workstations on the router. win10 randomly complains that it is unknown network and disconnects the workstations completely. Have you seen this? There are bunch of articles but I have not seen any definitive answer to this yet.
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Re: Windows 10 acting as a server with the 1803 update

Postby tdong » Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:24 am

\\server is what you want ? instead of ip ?

you can just edit the hosts file in windows for each workstation . this will act as DNS.

C:\Windows\System32\drivers\etc hosts is the file

#serverip and name
192.168.1.2 yourservername
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Re: Windows 10 acting as a server with the 1803 update

Postby Justin Shafer » Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:32 pm

No, going from a UNC path (\\computername) to using a unc path with an ip address (\\1.2.3.4) is what fixed this for me, so Open Dental would find the OpenDentImages path during normal use of the software, sometimes it would work and sometimes not. Browsing to the share from windows explorer would sometimes throw a Network path not found error from Windows explorer, from the workstation. But it seems you can always access the share by the ip address (\\1.2.3.4). This is not just with Open Dental, with lots of applications. Had to do this with Eaglesoft to really get it 100% right. Only if the server and workstation are running Windows 10 1803.

Never had this issue before 1803, with any version of Windows. Others have complained to Microsoft about it. Surprised, because this is still a problem, and 1809 is about to come out.
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Re: Windows 10 acting as a server with the 1803 update

Postby rajg » Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:23 pm

I have been using \\ip_address all along and it does work but sometimes during a boot up, network shares fail to connect. If you double click on it, it works fine for rest of the day. I am not sure what is going on.
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Re: Windows 10 acting as a server with the 1803 update

Postby Justin Shafer » Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:48 am

Are you sure you are not talking about mapped drives?
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