Signing remotely

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Hersheydmd
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Signing remotely

Post by Hersheydmd » Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:42 am

When I access OD from home with Remote Desktop, I can do everything I do in the office, with the exception of using a signature pad. I can sign the notes with the mouse (not ideal and takes a lot of practice), but today I noticed something strange.
When I click the Sign Topaz button, and move the mouse, nothing appears. If I click the Clear Sig button and move the mouse my sig does appear. I can go back and forth clicking the two buttons - Clear sig allows the mouse to draw and Sign Topaz prevents it from drawing. Is this something new? Never noticed it before. On version 7.9.17.
Robert M Hersh DMD, FAGD
Univ. of Penn 1982
Brooklyn, NY 11234
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Re: Signing remotely

Post by jordansparks » Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:21 am

That behavior sounds correct. When you are in "sign topaz" mode, it's expecting Topaz input, not mouse input.
Jordan Sparks, DMD
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Re: Signing remotely

Post by Hersheydmd » Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:34 pm

Is there any way to use a Topaz at home to sign remotely?
Robert M Hersh DMD, FAGD
Univ. of Penn 1982
Brooklyn, NY 11234
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Re: Signing remotely

Post by jordansparks » Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:45 pm

Microsoft RDP can probably handle it.
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Re: Signing remotely

Post by dkennel » Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:05 am

I am trying to do the same thing. I am using gotomypc to log in remotely. Topaz supports Citrix connections, but the support page description was "over my head" http://www.topazsystems.com/citrix_ts.htm and I am not sure if this all applies to gotomypc as well? I contacted gotomypc support and they said it should work???, but that's just not the case when I try...
My only other solution is to sign documents when I am back in the office. Is there a time frame limit? I think the progress note will be saved with the original entry date, but I will just have a different capture date on the signature date? Similar to documents coming back from a dictation service? Does this make sense?
I appreciate any comments or suggestions on this issue. I will update the thread if I come across a solution.

Dietmar Kennel DDS
Lubbock TX

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Re: Signing remotely

Post by dkennel » Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:20 pm

I have contacted Topaz for support. They asked me which SigPlus SDK open dental uses?
Does anybody have the answer to that?

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Re: Signing remotely

Post by michael » Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:03 am

We use the .NET SDK.

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Hersheydmd
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Re: Signing remotely

Post by Hersheydmd » Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:55 pm

I've gone back & forth with Topaz support. I am now able to send my signature remotely to their DemoOCX module.
I followed the instructions on the http://www.topazsystems.com/citrix_ts.htm page, but it wasn't so simple.
There are also a few modifications that need to be done to the C:\Windows\SigPlus.ini file.
Still can't remotely sign in OD. Sent an e-mail to Topaz to see if they can help.
Last edited by Hersheydmd on Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
Robert M Hersh DMD, FAGD
Univ. of Penn 1982
Brooklyn, NY 11234
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Re: Signing remotely

Post by Hersheydmd » Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:31 am

Michael from OpenDental said he would contact Topaz so hopefully we can get this working.
Hello Rob,

We don't know enough about OpenDental to make a determination. I suggest you contact OpenDental and have someone with developmental knowledge of the application contact us at devsupport@topazsystems.com.

Best Regards,

Jeff Robertson
Topaz Systems, Inc.
techhelp@topazsystems.com
Robert M Hersh DMD, FAGD
Univ. of Penn 1982
Brooklyn, NY 11234
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Robert-M ... 1471599429

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Re: Signing remotely

Post by Hersheydmd » Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:49 pm

Just wondering if Michael or anyone from OD contacted Topaz to figure out what is required to be able to use Topaz pad over a remote destop connection. I can sign in the Topaz Demo program over remote desktop, but not in OD.
Robert M Hersh DMD, FAGD
Univ. of Penn 1982
Brooklyn, NY 11234
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Re: Signing remotely

Post by jsalmon » Fri Oct 12, 2012 4:11 pm

Using Windows "Remote Desktop Connection" I was able to accomplish this between two windows 7 machines (64 bit) using the model T-S460-HSB pad.
First, without changing any settings, I made sure I could not sign remotely (I could not). Then I 100% followed steps 1-6 and I was able to sign remotely:
http://www.topazsystems.com/Software/do ... igSock.pdf
I did not use step seven because I have no use for it. It seems pretty straight forward if you need to use it. Hope this helps.
The best thing about a boolean is even if you are wrong, you are only off by a bit.

Jason Salmon
Open Dental Software
http://www.opendental.com

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Re: Signing remotely

Post by bcpayne » Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:52 pm

jsalmon, thanks for this. I can't wait to try it and free my self from the office earlier in the evening.

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Hersheydmd
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Re: Signing remotely

Post by Hersheydmd » Sun Oct 14, 2012 4:14 pm

Jason,
Did you do this within your local LAN or through the internet?
I aslo followed all 6 steps exactly.
I tried it in the office over the LAN and it worked. I could sit at my desk and sign notes on a computer in another room.
However, when I did it from home to the office, I had no problem signing in the Topaz DemoOCX.exe box, but nothing happened when I tried to sign in the OD box. Does that make sense? Any ideas?
Robert M Hersh DMD, FAGD
Univ. of Penn 1982
Brooklyn, NY 11234
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Robert-M ... 1471599429

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Re: Signing remotely

Post by jsalmon » Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:08 am

Sure Dr. Hersh, I can give it a go. My hunch would be to double check your TCP Ports 47289 and 47290 are forwarded correctly. A quick way to see if both are forwarded is to check them on this site:
http://www.canyouseeme.org/
The best thing about a boolean is even if you are wrong, you are only off by a bit.

Jason Salmon
Open Dental Software
http://www.opendental.com

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Re: Signing remotely

Post by jsalmon » Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:49 pm

Sorry Dr. Hersh... it worked for me. My suggestion to use the "canyouseeme.org" doesn't work. Possibly because this SigSock app doesn't actively listen to the ports they mentioned? I do not know the reasoning behind those ports but they are important to forward nonetheless. I was able to sign remotely in OD and the topaz app as long as I had the ports they mentioned forwarded to the computer I was trying to sign on. As soon as I disabled the port forwarding, I was unable to sign in both the topaz app and Open Dental.
Dr. Hersh, if you have your ports forwarded correctly my only other guess is that you should add OpenDental.exe and those topaz ports to your computer's firewall exceptions so that it's not accidentally blocking it. Also, if you are using a version of windows that allows running as admin make sure to do that as well.

Here is some information on the computers that were used in my successful test: (My test was constructed FROM work to my personal computer at home due to the amount of control I have over my router/firewall at home)
WorkComp: Windows 7 Professional, 64bit using OD v12.4.8 (version of OD should not matter at all). No UAC and our firewall / security measures are not important because this is where the outgoing request originated.
HomeComp: Windows 7 Home Premium, 64bit using OD v12.4.8 (wanted to keep the versions the same). No UAC and I use the window's security essentials.
I follwed the steps on the topaz document. Then I added an "Inbound Rule" called SigSock to the windows firewall allowing ports 47289-47290 through. I then logged into my router and forwarded the ports to the home comp's ip. I then ran OD as a regular user (my user is an administrator so that might not be helpful info).

After following the installation steps on the topaz document for my computer at work, I ran CMD and typed in "SigSock.exe [IPTOHOMECOMP] test 6" and it said:
C:\>SigSock.exe [IPTOHOMECOMP] test 6
Setting tablet type to 6
Connecting with Host = [IPTOHOMECOMP], Client = test


Went back to my home computer that had OD running and opened up a procedure and clicked the Sign Topaz button. It gave me a thinking glass for a little bit (I'm used to the sign topaz button not pausing at all so that was a little odd). Once the thinking glass went away, I began to sign on my T-S460-HSB here at work and it showed up on my computer at home. At that point I shut down OD and disabled my port forwarding and did the test again in topaz and OD and neither could sign.

One thing I noticed when doing this test was that the connecting line took a long time before a new line saying the same thing would show up. When I did this locally it flooded my CMD with the connecting line very quickly. I don't know what that means, but it's probably not important at all. Hope this helps someone out.
The best thing about a boolean is even if you are wrong, you are only off by a bit.

Jason Salmon
Open Dental Software
http://www.opendental.com

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Re: Signing remotely

Post by jsalmon » Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:14 pm

One thing I thought of was that in both my tests I was signing to a computer that did not have a topaz pad plugged in. If you have a pad plugged into the remote computer, Open Dental might be listening to that local pad instead of the network pad so to speak. I highly doubt this is the problem but it could be something that is different between our "setups".
The best thing about a boolean is even if you are wrong, you are only off by a bit.

Jason Salmon
Open Dental Software
http://www.opendental.com

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Re: Signing remotely

Post by Hersheydmd » Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:25 pm

Hey Jason,
Thanks for all your effort.
I am glad to see that it should work. Just have to figure out where my bottleneck is occuring that is blocking it.
I did port forward correctly. The proof is that I am able to sign in the Topaz demo program, without any problem.
I have been playing with it here at the office from one computer to another and it works. It works even when I remote from one machine to another and then from that machine to a third. I can sit at the first machine and sign on the third machine. What I noticed is that if I open the Topaz program first and sign in the box, and then open OpenDental, and try to sign a procedure note, my signature goes into the Topaz box on top of the previous signature. An in reverse, if I open OpenDental first and sign and then Topaz the signatures all go in the OD box and not Topaz, so there must be something about having both programs open at the same time. The first program grabs the connection.
I am going to try from home later. I was able to get it to work once last night from home, but it only worked for a few minutes. Could it have anything to do with the speed of the connection? I am getting a lot of intermittant "Program not responding" and waiting for what I do at home to appear on the screen in the office.
My setup is WinXP Pro SP3 at home, Win7Pro 64-bit at the office. OD v12.3.21
Robert M Hersh DMD, FAGD
Univ. of Penn 1982
Brooklyn, NY 11234
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Re: Signing remotely

Post by jsalmon » Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:54 am

The only time I got "Program not responding" was in the topaz app and I had stopped forwarding my ports so I was expecting odd results. I didn't even think to mention that. We're getting into the realm of the topaz dll and this SigSock program I'm afraid so my answers are going to be limited because I don't know much of anything about either. I only ever use the topaz app to just make sure the pads are working in general and then I never use it ever again, so if using one and not the other works, I say always do that. I'd agree with you in the fact that the not responding is happening due to the traffic time it takes to get to your office, that seems very probable. You might be curious to see how many "routers" (if you will) you bounce off of before your "packets" reach your office. When I do a CMD > tracert [HomeIP] from work, I only "bounce" off of one other router before I hit my destination and it takes a few milliseconds (I live 5 minutes from work). So that could very well be the culprit, however, that would leave it in the hands of Topaz to improve this SigSock app somehow or to improve your internet connection which might only help a little. :?
The best thing about a boolean is even if you are wrong, you are only off by a bit.

Jason Salmon
Open Dental Software
http://www.opendental.com

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Re: Signing remotely

Post by Hersheydmd » Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:47 pm

Hey Jason,
So, I've been experimenting for the past few days. My results are bizarre.
I am sure my settings are correct, because I can sign in the Topaz app. I can sign in OD, in a CommLog, or in a Form (sheet).
However, I can't sign in a Procedure Info window. On occasion it does work, but very rarely.
There is a lag of 5-10 seconds between when I click the pen and I am able to sign in the CommLog or Form, same with clicking Start in the Topaz app. But most of the time, no matter how long I wait I still can't sign in the Procedure window.
Settings:
Home: Win XP Pro SP3 SpeedTest: 43Mbps download, 23Mbps upload
Office: Win7 Pro SP1 SpeedTest: 7Mbps download, 5Mbsp upload (tested from home remote desktop connection).
OD v12.3.21

Any clue?
Robert M Hersh DMD, FAGD
Univ. of Penn 1982
Brooklyn, NY 11234
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Robert-M ... 1471599429

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Re: Signing remotely

Post by jsalmon » Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:13 pm

The code in those two places are identical except one line. The procedure edit window does not force the "focus" of the OS to the signature box. It doesn't need to, after the sign topaz button is clicked you should be able to click around on the procedure edit window (except for the note section) giving focus to the other controls on the window and still be able to start signing on the pad and the signature will appear. I'm 95% sure this has nothing to do with whats going on with your issue unless you are clicking in the Notes section of the procedure info window in which case the pad gets taken out of input mode and no matter how long you wait you will not be able to sign with the topaz pad (this is true when locally signing as well). The fact that it works some of the time also makes me feel that that the one line of code difference has no affect on this situation. I wish I understood this SigSock app more, sorry.
The best thing about a boolean is even if you are wrong, you are only off by a bit.

Jason Salmon
Open Dental Software
http://www.opendental.com

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Re: Signing remotely

Post by Hersheydmd » Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:47 pm

I see what you mean about clicking outside the signature box in the CommLog window and then not being able to sign.
But what you said about the Procedure window is not what I experience. Even clicking inside the Note box (as well as anywhere else in the window), and even typing inside the Note box, does not lock me out of sig pad input.
I only tried this locally, not remotely. After I click the "pen" I can start to sign in the box, click elsewhere in the window, even type in the note box, and go back and continue to sign in the sig box. No action locks the sig pad, like it does in the CommLog or sheets.
Don't see how this could interfere wih signing remotely, but perhaps it does some how.
Jeff Robertson from Topaz offered his support if someone from Open Dental would contact him at devsupport@topazsystems.com.
Robert M Hersh DMD, FAGD
Univ. of Penn 1982
Brooklyn, NY 11234
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Robert-M ... 1471599429

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Re: Signing remotely

Post by jsalmon » Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:14 am

I'll see if Jeff has any suggestions code wise for optimizing signing remotely.
The best thing about a boolean is even if you are wrong, you are only off by a bit.

Jason Salmon
Open Dental Software
http://www.opendental.com

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Re: Signing remotely

Post by jsalmon » Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:33 pm

He said the code we're running shouldn't affect anything but recommends we update our .dll that we have to their most recent version. I'll run this by Jordan.
The last time we updated their dll, they didn't document some stuff and broke a lot of "old signatures" and I had to talk to several different people from their company to get specifics just because they didn't document it in their SDK. That took a while mind you. I'm hesitant to update because it's working some of the time and it works just fine for me...
The best thing about a boolean is even if you are wrong, you are only off by a bit.

Jason Salmon
Open Dental Software
http://www.opendental.com

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Re: Signing remotely

Post by Hersheydmd » Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:23 pm

Jason,
I understand what you're saying.
Wouldn't want to break something by fixing something else. Is there any way to test it out first?

And in another line of investigation, would you like to try to Remote Desktop into my computer and see if you can sign remotely in my OD? I just tested it again, and once again I can sign in the CommLog & sheets, but not in the procedure window.
Robert M Hersh DMD, FAGD
Univ. of Penn 1982
Brooklyn, NY 11234
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Robert-M ... 1471599429

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Re: Signing remotely

Post by jsalmon » Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:58 pm

I'd be more than happy to try and remote into the computer and see if it works for me. Feel free to email me: jason@opendental.com
We can test out the new .dll on your machine, but this is going to require installing visual studio onto the machine so that I can recompile the code with the new dll. This takes a while so we'd have to set up a time so that I can be remoted in and no one will need to use it for a while, unless you have an extra computer laying around that you can set up so that I won't hinder anyone from working.
The best thing about a boolean is even if you are wrong, you are only off by a bit.

Jason Salmon
Open Dental Software
http://www.opendental.com

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Re: Signing remotely

Post by Hersheydmd » Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:22 pm

Jason,
Thanks sounds great.
You may have heard on the news that we are expecting a huge storm tomorrow. I cancelled my patients and staff is not coming in.
I'm an Emergency Medical Corp volunteer, so if I'm not called up and I can get to the office I'll email you and maybe we can do it tomorrow or Tuesday. Thanks.
Robert M Hersh DMD, FAGD
Univ. of Penn 1982
Brooklyn, NY 11234
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Robert-M ... 1471599429

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Re: Signing remotely

Post by Hersheydmd » Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:43 pm

Jason,
Forget about it for now. The power was knocked out at the office. Hope I don't lose it at home too.
Robert M Hersh DMD, FAGD
Univ. of Penn 1982
Brooklyn, NY 11234
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Robert-M ... 1471599429

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Re: Signing remotely

Post by Pruce Dental » Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:28 am

Any updates on this thread?

I have the same problem too with being able to capture the signatures remotely using Windows 2003 server with RDP.

Jason when you got yours to work was it using 2 Windows 7 computers or was it with Windows Server 2003 and a windows 7 machine?

I had Kapricorn set everything up and it did not work within OD. The only difference now is that OD hangs for 30 seconds plus EVERY time I try opening a procedure or sheet that has a signature box.
Robert L. Pruce, DMD
www.prucedental.com

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Re: Signing remotely

Post by Pruce Dental » Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:33 am

Any news?
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www.prucedental.com

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Re: Signing remotely

Post by jsalmon » Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:18 am

My test was using two Window 7 computers. I don't know what's special about installing applications through Add/Remove programs, but hopefully Kapricorn did that step correctly. That seems to be the only unique step for Server 2003.
The best thing about a boolean is even if you are wrong, you are only off by a bit.

Jason Salmon
Open Dental Software
http://www.opendental.com

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Re: Signing remotely

Post by Hersheydmd » Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:18 pm

Hi Jason,
I'm back. Still catching up from Sandy. My basement flooded and had to be gutted, and my office was without power for a week. Could have been worse, a few friends lost their entire offices and a lot of patients lost their homes or businesses. It really brought home the value of being paperless and having adequate backups. I have so much to do I have to put this on hold. As soon as I can get back to it I'll be back on the forum. In the meantime, wishing everyone a very happy holiday and New Year.
Robert M Hersh DMD, FAGD
Univ. of Penn 1982
Brooklyn, NY 11234
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Robert-M ... 1471599429

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Re: Signing remotely

Post by DavidM » Mon Jan 25, 2016 4:32 am

Hi.

I am experiencing similar problems when signing remotely from a Windows 7 32 bits connected to a Windows 7 32 bits by remote desktop.

When signing, sometimes it works the first or second time, but suddenly it stops working (grey signing box), despite I have been following the Topaz instructions (How-To Guide "SigSock Remote Environment System For HSB (HID USB) Pads").

Any ideas?

Thanks in advance.

David

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Re: Signing remotely

Post by Hersheydmd » Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:18 pm

I never got it to work properly. At one time I considered buying a BSB Topaz pad which is designed to work remotely in place of the HSB pad which I can't get to work.
But I gave up and instead wrote a script to copy my database from my office to my home computer remotely. Then I work on my home computer (anyway it's faster than working remotely). Then I have a reverse script to copy it back to the office. It takes about 10-15 minutes to transfer the database via remote desktop. Note: I remote into a workstation at the office, not into my server.
Here are my scripts:
  1. @Echo On
    ren \\tsclient\C\mysql\data\opendental opendental_%date:~10,4%_%date:~4,2%_%date:~7,2%
    robocopy \\Server\C\mysql\data\opendental \\tsclient\C\mysql\data\opendental /s
    pause
  2. @Echo On
    ren \\Server\C\mysql\data\opendental opendental_%date:~10,4%_%date:~4,2%_%date:~7,2%
    robocopy \\tsclient\C\mysql\data\opendental \\Server\C\mysql\data\opendental /s
    pause
Robert M Hersh DMD, FAGD
Univ. of Penn 1982
Brooklyn, NY 11234
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Robert-M ... 1471599429

Pruce Dental
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Re: Signing remotely

Post by Pruce Dental » Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:00 am

@ Hersch...

Too much work involved there...

Set up a VPN (which you probably got already) between your home and office server and then install a copy of OD (the setup file not your database etc) on the home computer and tell OD in the choose database option where your data is at the office...OD will run the SQL server(but slower) and not know or care that you are in different physical locations. You can then plug in your signature pad on you local home computer and sign away....
Robert L. Pruce, DMD
www.prucedental.com

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Re: Signing remotely

Post by Hersheydmd » Sat Feb 13, 2016 12:46 pm

Pruce Dental wrote:@ Hersch...

Too much work involved there...

Set up a VPN (which you probably got already) between your home and office server and then install a copy of OD (the setup file not your database etc) on the home computer and tell OD in the choose database option where your data is at the office...OD will run the SQL server(but slower) and not know or care that you are in different physical locations. You can then plug in your signature pad on you local home computer and sign away....
Can I set up a VPN if my "server" at the office is running Windows 8 and not server software?
Robert M Hersh DMD, FAGD
Univ. of Penn 1982
Brooklyn, NY 11234
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Robert-M ... 1471599429

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