Suni Sensor

Post by **jordansparks** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:45 am

Well, I hooked up my Suni sensor today to start using it with real patients. The sensor worked fine, but the XCP holder was lousy. The horizontal basket slides on OK, but the vertical basket simply puts too much stress on the sensor. So we can't use if for BWs until we get a better holder. We can use it for PAs, but the setup complexity is about twice that of a regular film. There are extra parts, many opportunities to get various parts connected backwards or upside down, etc. By the time the assistant assembles the thing, they could have already taken a regular film and be half way done processing it. So it seems to have a slight speed advantage, be more uncomfortable for the patient, and have a high wow factor. I think once we get it set up for BW, the time savings will be significant, because you can take all 4 BWs without changing the way the XCP snaps together. Now I have to go google for a better holder.

Post by **jordansparks** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:03 am

I spoke too soon. After I read the directions, snapping the vertical cage on wasn't too bad. But I will need to order more durable sleeves. It's worth the money to avoid moisture on the sensor. We'll be taking 4BWs in about an hour. Wish me luck.

sparkly · Post by **sparkly** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:27 am

it'll also get a lot easier/faster since you'd leave the xcp guides "pre-set-up" and in a pile next to the sensor. then, jsut pop it in (except for the anterior..pain-in-the-butt design). good luck! digital is fun.

wjstarck · Post by **wjstarck** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:00 am

Whatever you do, make *sure* the staff knows to

NEVER NEVER EVER

spray cavicide on the sensors, because it will ruin them.

I had an endodontist friend of mine that had to eat a $10,000 sensor for that exact reason.

Ouch!

Bill Starck, DDS

Post by **jordansparks** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:07 am

Done. The patient could not bite all the way together. She was not impressed. There seems to be one glaring issue in OD: rearranging the images on the mount. I think we already programmed that, so I'll have to go see where that option went.

jkeele · Post by **jkeele** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:44 am

Wow..... we got our Suni sensors up and running and we are off to a great start. I had been having some problems with a Time Out, but there is a new ximage... dll. And it works great. As far as installation, we installed the Suni twain drivers, and then just put the Sensor specific files in a directory called Suni in the main OD program directory.

And to use we just cllicked Capture, and took the xray. It was no problem switching the BW holder to another holder. We were using a sensor holder that is adjustable and one holder can use all the different size sensors. We did not use the Troll Dental holders that came with our sensor kit. Which holder were you using Jordan?

The xray was saved as a bmp file in the patient file. The quality was excellent, and we will be comparing to see if it is the same quality as if using the Dr Suni software. As we get more experience, I am sure the quality will improve.

Overall, I think this is a great feature, and it works super. If someone needs the bells and whistles of the Dr Suni software, they should get it on only on one computer. Being from Apteryx, it is a good software product.

Thanks for such a great feature.
James

Post by **jordansparks** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:17 pm

You shouldn't have needed to install any twain files. We don't use those. To our eyes, the quality looked identical to that of Apteryx. But we don't have any enhancement filters yet, so I think they have the advantage there if enhancement is needed.

sparkly · Post by **sparkly** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:43 pm

jordansparks wrote:Done. The patient could not bite all the way together. She was not impressed.

did you position it at/beyond the midline? unless the person has a really shallow palate or very short a-p distance (so corner of sensor hits palate between 8-9), the sensor should be ok if it's positioned farther away from the linguals unlike traditional film.

Post by **jordansparks** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:13 pm

Still having trouble with the holders. For example, the BW holder only passes across the occlusal of the premolars even when taking a molar shot. This causes the entire thing to tip unpredictably forward and backward. It's as if someone took a BW tab and fastened it only to the very anterior 1/3 of the BW rather then centered. It's a terrible design. Then, there's the problem of the wire. Anyone with a deep bite will not be able to bite all the way together because, well, the wire has to go someplace. We're going to keep plodding away at it, but I'm losing interest quickly. I'm definitely ready to give phosphor plate systems a try now.

drtech · Post by **drtech** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:16 am

anyone tried the "wireless" sensors out there?

sparkly · Post by **sparkly** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:51 am

drtech wrote:anyone tried the "wireless" sensors out there?

report from lorne is that they're not there yet. anyone can walk off with them/lose them/smash them. and the interference from other office stuff doesn't lend it to be the most fabulous thing. jsut paraphrasing from lorne's posts/comments though.

Post by **jordansparks** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:54 pm

Wired sensors are pretty much useless for BWs. The patient CANNOT bite together all the way, because it would squish the cord. This is especially a problem for patients with a deep bite. The only patient we've gotten a tolerable BW on was one with a slight open bite in anterior. I don't know why this wasn't obvious to me before now. But to claim that a wired sensor can take good BWs is just plain false. The only use our sensor will see is PAs from now on. I need to obtain a phosphor plate system.

cneelley · Post by **cneelley** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:27 pm

I am looking real hard at XDR which is a wired sensor. I asked the rep about the cord problem. 1St he said that the cord is the limiting factor in the length of service, as eventually it breaks. You would think that could be fixed but he said that I would have to buy another one!!!

I also asked about the problem you are having, because I was wondering, it seemed like an obvious problem. He said that the bite wing holders that we should use should open the bite so that the cord does not get pinched, bit. Open bite means less perio diagnostic ability unless they are turned vertically. Dr. Yoon insisted that if we only got one sensor that we should get size one. I think with this vertical bitewings would be necessary??? XDR also recommended that we pay for Dr. Chen to come out and demonstrate the proper way to use the sensors. They made me think that it was very important.

I am not yet using one, but are the bitewing holders opening the bite?

I have heard that phosphor plate systems do not provide the same quality as regular xrays, which for me counts them out. That would cost a fortune over time.

Maybe you should call and ask. They, XDR, are a big fan of yours.

Dr. Neelley

Post by **jordansparks** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:57 pm

Yes, the holder certainly does open the bite. When taking a molar BW, the patient is biting on a plastic tab around the area of the canines. You can imagine how much this opens the bite. I'm getting BWs with pretty much zero bone level showing, and I'm using a #2 sensor. You can't take vertical BWs because the cord is attached to the short side of the sensor.

If I was designing a sensor, I would shape it more like a vertical BW, with the cord coming off the long side. It would have a 30 degree bend right along the occlusal plane. This way it could set right up against the teeth. Any distortion could be digitally corrected. Then, it wouldn't matter that the bite was a little bit open. But who am I to challenge the status quo?

As for the quality of phosphor plate, I was not aware that the quality might be lower. I was under the impression that the quality was very comparable with standard film. Time for more research.

sparkly · Post by **sparkly** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:37 pm

jordansparks wrote:Yes, the holder certainly does open the bite. When taking a molar BW, the patient is biting on a plastic tab around the area of the canines.

that shouldn't be. the (flimsy-type) rinn digital sensor holders have a cutout that 'curves' toward the midline so when the patient bites, the only contact is on the plastic in the area of the picture, not to the canines. with the design of generic digital sensor holders (not 'Dentsply Rinn') where the biting part is straight, the patient's canines should *still* not be contacting it. if that's the case, the holder (and sensor) are not positioned as close to the midline as they should be.

for the above post re: holders opening the bite:
yes, you do lose some bone level from the cord being in the way but it shouldn't be more significant than taking bitewings with an old-school Snap-a-ray. the rinn holders that come with XDR don't open the bite significantly (but still help clear the cord). yes, the picture DOES look different than if you used a paper tab, but otherwise a sensor+rinn is close to a film+rinn. again, the angulation/positioning of the sensor is a little different than traditional film.

i also do vertical bitewings with my #1 sensor and they are fine. the cord is not in the way because it sits at the palate midline. yes, this IS harder to do with a #2 because of the sheer size of that thing. (i would assume that's why dr Yoon recommended a #1 as the choice for a single-sensor purchase.) the cord of the XDR comes out mid-back so the impingement on the patient is minimal. right now i can't picture the suni cord.

as an aside, if anyone is using the thinner type of sensors (eg, anyhting but a dexis), please consider using the sticky sensor-shields that usually come free of charge with a sensor positioning kit. one of these on each side of the sensor makes a HUGE difference and will make patient acceptance (and your positioning) better.

DrT · Post by **DrT** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:18 am

I use the Krystal X easy sensors by Owandy size #2 and #1 with the Winger Bitewing tab for bitewing and the easy grip for PAs; They work fine. Now, you have to remember that a millimeter opening in the molar area translates to 2 or 3 mm opening in the anterior so the wire should not be a problem for taking bitewing. It is proper positioning and xray tube angulation. Make sure to try and position the sensors toward the center of the arch. It does take a little time to be proficient at taking xray with the sensors, but don't give up on it.

It is great after a month or so of use. Bitewing use to be set at 22 sec. and 70Kvp and now with sensor it is set at 6 sec. Can't beat instant Xray and PA the size of the LCD screen size (17" or 19").

I do have problem taking xray with children under 6 yrs of age even with the #1 sensor.

Dr. T

DrT · Post by **DrT** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:20 am

I use the Krystal X easy sensors by Owandy size #2 and #1 with the Winger Bitewing tab for bitewing and the easy grip for PAs; They work fine. Now, you have to remember that a millimeter opening in the molar area translates to 2 or 3 mm opening in the anterior so the wire should not be a problem for taking bitewing. It is proper positioning and xray tube angulation. Make sure to try and position the sensors toward the center of the arch. It does take a little time to be proficient at taking xray with the sensors, but don't give up on it.

It is great after a month or so of use. Bitewing use to be set at 22 sec. and 70Kvp and now with sensor it is set at 6 sec. Can't beat instant Xray and PA the size of the LCD screen size (17" or 19").

I do have problem taking xray with children under 6 yrs of age even with the #1 sensor.

Dr. T